My Interview with a Salt Lake City Weekly Reporter

Sigh…

Although I would like to edit out the profanity and change some bad grammar and otherwise touch up the interview so that it fulfills a personal agenda,

NOT IN THIS WORK!

I am who I am.  I act like I am, and unlike all others who proclaim some value in that people should listen to them, I do not act one way in public and another way in private.

Whether or not Stephen Dark, the reporter, likes it or not, this MWAW is full transparency and everything I discuss with him will be put in my Daily Journal.

Why?

So that the world can make its own decision if there is integrity in the media… if reporters quote out of context and present personal suppositions based on subjective journalism instead of an objective and fair outlay of the facts, as seen by both sides.

I didn’t ask Mr. Dark if I could share our interview with the public, I don’t have to.  And if he decides not to run the story because I have… oh well!

I have nothing to hide; therefore, neither should my critics and enemies, nor anyone who desires to report, good or bad, about me and this work.

That said,

Here the following is a true and correct transcript of the interview.

(Since Mr. Dark wrote in his own shorthand, I hope he can utilize the following transcript for the benefit of getting the quotes correct.)

I guess I should apologize for the profanity used.  But I won’t.  :-)

It is what it is.

_________________

Interview with Salt Lake City Weekly, Stephen Dark, December 2, 2010

C:  So Stephen, what have you been up to the last few years?  I haven’t seen you for what, four years or something?

S:   Uh, I have been – -

C:  I’ve read your stories.  I would read City Weekly, it’s quite entertaining, so I read it, and I’ve read your stories and I’d think, “there ya go Steven, do what you gotta do, do it good.”

C:  So what is it that you need to know?  I guess first you’d probably want to know why I initiated a desire for you to seek out Ida.

S:  It’s pretty clear in your journal when you talk about the impact, of who she is and what she means.  It’s pretty clear.  I guess I’d like to do this in two stages.  Today I just wanted to like, ask you some general questions about what you’ve been doing since I last saw you and then come back to you on the fact…  I got a cover story coming out next week and I’d like to do a first draft of this story next week, and I have to deal with this cover story, but I wanted to make – - I was in West Jordan 3^rd District Court looking at some of the court files from your lawsuit about the The Rape of Rachel Strong and your prior issues with Lindberg and others.  I’ve had some question about that but I’ve not had an opportunity to even process all that stuff.  But I just wanted to today just talk about what must be going on generally, get your perspective, in particular, obviously about Ida.  But also just to put Ida in the – - she kinda intwined with aspects of the lawsuit, aspects of things that have been happening with ya.

C:  Oh yes, she certainly is!

S:  And then we’ll get to the grave – -

C:  The memorial.

S: – - we’ll have to come back to that.  I’ll have to say that one surprised me.

C:  It did, huh?

S:  Well ya, I wasn’t aware that ummm…. where should we pick it up?

C:  Well first, we need to pick it up wherever you want it to be, because you know it’s your story, and I’m not sure exactly where you want to – - what perspective you want to throw on all this, because it’s obvious, and you wouldn’t be one good reporter if you didn’t have the common sense to doubt this work, doubt all my claims, and to really try to figure out “What is he doing?”  You know, what exactly is he doing?  You asked me what I have been doing, so it comes back to that point: “What is he doing; how did this start?”

S:  What’s the difference between Chris and Christopher?

C:  Christopher’s my real name.  Christopher means “Bearer of Christ,” and it’s exactly what it means, and it was given to me by my mother not even knowing why.  But whether the belief is there in your own heart or not, it was meant to be just for this Work.  Also, the fact that my name is also mentioned in The Sealed Portion.  Ya know, Stephen, something needs to be cleared up right now.  And I think you – - once you – - you’ve been involved somewhat in my past and have made some opinion and judgment on that.

S:  I’ve been talking to people that have opinions about you.

C:  There ya go.

S:  I haven’t rendered, per se, opinions myself.

C: Well, one of the things is this term “predator” that people seem to have, and so we need to clear this up right now.  Never have I once, ever, from 2000 being involved with Christine Marie, as you report her name, or any other woman, any other person, have I ever been a predator of anybody.  A predator is one who seeks out people for their own gain, okay, for whatever that gain or value has done.  I have never done that.   Every single person that has ever embraced this Work or has come to know this Work has done it on their own.  I don’t go knocking on doors.  I’m not a missionary or a proselyter.  I don’t do anything but put the information out there.  The people themselves come to it.  And this idea that I influence women with my looks and charisma – - well thank you (S: laughter) – - and somehow get them in this trap of mine is absurd.  Because if you were to analyze the stories of those who wish to share them of those who have come to this Work, you’ll find the men first are the ones who embrace this Work.  It was then, after that, they brought their wives in.  So this idea that I’m out there trying to find followers or people to accept this is absolutely ridiculous.  I never have and I never will.

S:  I know that um – - I guess this thing of being a predator stems back to some degree to Christine Marie, because that’s how she sort of – -

C:  Well, she’s giving you the wrong story.

S:  Well, I haven’t talked to Christine.  I’m talking about reading – - rereading Ben’s story after all this time, and it’s actually – - what a great writer Ben is, it’s a very fluid story.

C:  But he wasn’t an honest researcher, or investigator.  You guys don’t have the facts right.  I’ve tried to give those and I have given them, and we’ll give them in my biography and you can check them out with, quote, “records.”  Ben Fulton, when he was doing his story, contacted me in jail.  I was – - the fact is to get all that story right, you have to go back to why I was in jail in the first place.  Figure that out.  I served my time, Stephen.  The judge by the name of Denise Lindberg.  I even served my time, got my good time, got out, and then that judge threw me back in illegally.  Everybody knows it that she did that illegally, and then I was back in that jail illegally.  Ben Fulton got involved with Christine, and why was he involved with Christine?  Because I rejected Christine.  I didn’t want anything to do with her.  What you’re going to find, and I don’t say this in any arrogance, it is the facts and the truth:  All those who were involved with me in my life, who either fell in love with me, or developed a friendship, or whatever they did, once I offended them in any way, usually the women by leaving them, I became a monster.  It’s much easier to claim that I’m a monster than to admit that maybe he just didn’t want to be with ya.  Okay?  And that’s exactly what happened.  No “if’s,” “ands” or “but’s” about it.  You check out any of my history of any of the people I’ve been involved with, those who call me a monster, or a deceiver, or a manipulator are always those whom I have left; but while I’m with them, I’m a kind, compassionate, loving, humorous, wonderful person.  Why is that Stephen?

S:  Not to Julie Taggart.

C:  What do you mean “not to Julie Taggart?”  What do you mean?

S:  Well, my impression from, uh – - Let’s sort of step back a bit.  You got Christine; these are some of the impressions from the critical side.  There’s Christine, then Julie who supposedly gives you 200,000 dollars after she’s left her husband – -

C:  Wrong!

S:  - – her husband and seven kids for you,  and then you treat her – -

C:  See?  That fact is completely wrong!

S:  I know, that’s why I’m having this conversation with you.

C:  Okay.  So when you start out with a falsehood in your head, saying something – - if Julie was right here and she heard you say that, she’d would just look at you and say “where in the hell are you gettin’ your information?”

S:  It’s out there.

C:  She left her husband long before she met me, and did I seek her out?  No.  She read The Sealed Portion and came to me and sought me out.  Like everyone does.  Every single person in this Work, except my wife, sought me out.  Once they read The Sealed Portion it changed their life.  That is what happened.  Christine Marie sought me out and that’s a whole other story because at that time I wasn’t even involved in this Work.  And that’s neither here nor there but what happened, Stephen, you know very well as a reporter, people get an idea in their mind if they like ya then they’re gonna find facts about you that support their idea or opinion and they’re gonna disregard every other fact, even if it’s a fact.  If they don’t like ya they’re going to disregard everything good about you, that’s how people are.

S:  Sure, and it’s a reporter’s job to sort through the wheat and the tares and try to figure out what he or she thinks is the truth.

S:  The reason I bring up Julie was because, not the uh – - I’ve read something that you’ve written in your journal about how harsh you’ve been to her and how you caused her homelessness and just suffering it seems.

C:  I didn’t cause anything.

S:  But that’s what you put in your journal.

C:  She did that on her own.  I could’ve stepped in and helped her but I didn’t.

S:  But didn’t you say in one of your journal’s that you caused her misery?

C:  You gotta get your facts straight and that’s a whole other story.  She lived in a trailer that Sheri and I own.  Okay?  Julie, of her own admittance, can become very belligerent and very jealous.  I don’t take well to people who aren’t my wife and become jealous.  And when she had become jealous I cut her off from any doings with me at all and that is the facts.  And some people see that as harsh but what happens sometimes when you write on the Internet, they don’t know your personality.  Since you’ve known me — which hasn’t been a lot — have you ever seen my countenance change?  If you were to talk to my wife, who’s been with me now for close to seven years – -

S:  I’ve known you for a few hours.

C:  There ya go.  She’ll tell you that my countenance doesn’t change.  Even when I’m writing this stuff I had a smile on my face.  Ya see, that, what your perception of what harsh is, you gotta get down to the facts.  What is it that he did?  If someone says he was harsh with Julie, then you have to get to the facts and say what is it that he actually did that was harsh?

S:  Well, that’s why I was bringing it up, to find out what actually happened.  Because Julie was, is, was, was not, I don’t know what I’m trying to say but she was like a – - kinda a – - she wasn’t the out-person in this work.  She was right next to you.

C:  That’s right.

S:  And she was to my mind the most committed advocate.

C:  And she still is, but I don’t want anything to do with her or anyone else because she gets jealous; she gets jealous of my time.  And when someone gets jealous of my time when my Work is not for any one individual — it’s for the whole world — I’ll put ‘em in their place by cutting off my relationship with them.  And so if that’s harsh, then I have been harsh.  If it was harsh what I did with Christine Marie, cutting off my relationship, that was harsh.  It was harsh what I did with my ex-wife, the other Sheri Nemelka, then that’s harsh.  If it’s harsh what I did with Jackie, Marcie, Vickie, sat them down as it said right in your paper, that’s how harsh I was; I sat them on that couch and told them “polygamy is a crock; I’m not going to live this way,” and they took it as harsh.  And they took it as me being a monster and a manipulator.  You got to get to those facts, Stephen.  If someone says, “Christopher did something harsh,” you’ve got to pin them down and ask, “what exactly did he do?”  And when you pin them down they’d be all “oo, ah, uh, it kinda seemed harsh.”  Come on.  I’m telling ya, I’m gonna tell you straight man to man.  There isn’t one thing that I’ve done to anybody that’s ever been harsh, not one thing.  Once you find out the actual state of the situation they’re claiming is harsh, you’ll find “wait a minute, that’s not harsh — so the guy doesn’t want to be around you.”  Anyway, all I’m asking is if anyone wants to know Christopher Nemelka, is that they review the facts.  You — of all the people that I’ve ever met — you have at least attempted to hear this side of the story and do some investigation.  What conclusions you come up with are Stephen Dark’s conclusions, and I don’t care if Stephen comes up with “Christopher Nemelka is a Joseph Smith and he’s just as manipulative and predatory as Joseph Smith” — but if that be the case – -

S:  Are you not saying that Joseph Smith was manipulative and predatory?

C:  Absolutely not.  I’m saying if that’s what Stephen Dark or anybody else comes to the conclusion is, there’s nothing I can do about that.  Nothing at all.  But if you’re an LDS person and you’re looking at this, you got to consider the ramifications of what this Work represents.  Okay?

S:  Now one of the things that I’ve come away with, with my two conversations with Ida, is just how – - I mean one of the things that intrigues me about these two conversations is this idea that the gospel and the institution are two separate things and she knew that when she was very young and her life has been a constant quest for the truth, seeking.  She said that she goes to that meeting where Julie says, “I have The Sealed Portion.” That’s one of the things she been searching for her whole life.  And she sits down, six weeks she reads it, weeps away through boxes of Kleenex, and her whole life just becomes, clearly turned on it’s head — well, it’s not turned on it’s head, it’s distilled in the essence that she was searching for?

C:  That’s right.

S:  Is that how you see it?

C:  I see it that way and if a person like you or anybody else that gets to know Ida should ask themselves this question: This woman has been around countless General Authorities of the Church; she has searched for truth her whole life as an avid reader; her home is filled with books — how is it that this woman, who is a very intelligent, very sharp, very well educated, can read one book, just one book, and it changes her whole life, when she has talked to so-called “Prophets, Seers, and Revelators,” when she’s read countless books and she’s talked to many people throughout the world; how is it that just one book can bring this woman to tears and cause her entire life to change?  Wouldn’t she know?Wouldn’t Ida know the difference between a false thing, in her mind, okay, and one that is true, after her 76-year-old search?  That has given veracity to this Work because I’m going to tell you right know, anybody who sits down with a sincere heart and real intent and reads The Sealed Portion, it will change their life forever–bar none.  You can’t just skim through it looking for bad things.  It’s gotta be with a real intent and a sincere heart. You got people all the time – - pick it up all the time – - that go, “Oh, what is this?  Look at these chapter headings.”  I wrote the chapter headings.  Christopher Nemelka wrote the chapter headings.  But the rest came through the Urim and Thummim, and whether you believe in that or not, it came exactly like Joseph Smith received the Book of Mormon.

S:  Do you have a copy of the audio of the suit against the LDS Church?

C:  It’s on the Internet.  You can get it right on the Internet.

S:  The audio is on there?

C:  Ya, and I’ll send you the email to the guy who knows where all that is.  It’s right there on the Internet.

S:  It’s you talkin?  It’s a recording of you in court?

C:  I think it’s a video, an actual video.

S:  Oh, it’s a video?

C:  Ya, and it was fun.

S:  Ya, I want to see it.

C:  It was fun times.  You got those four suited grey attorneys and then you got ol’ Christopher over here.  The fact is you go through that and you listen to it and you tell me — if you’re an unbiased jury — if I didn’t have a case; if I didn’t prove my case in court that day because I did.  That lawsuit should have gone forward.  The judge should have ruled that this was okay to go forward but he had his judgment prepared before he even came to court.

S:  (…) they threw it out on the basis that it was something to do with diversity.

C:  No.  He threw it out on the basis of technicality, that’s it.

S:  It was technicality involving diversity of someone living …

C:  Nope.

S:  I read his ruling – -

C:  It was a technicality of when I filed certain papers.

S:  - – about people living in Utah and not living in Utah, the technicalities there.

C:  It was just technicalities.  But the fact is this, did Jeffrey R. Holland insinuate that I was a polygamist?  Did he insinuate that?  Yes he did.  That’s defamation under the law.  He not only committed a crime but there was cause for civil lawsuit.  And if you go back and you review the lawsuit I filed against that publisher of The Rape of Rachel Strong and those others, they did the same thing.  Their attorneys tried to get the suit thrown out.  The judge says, “No, Mr. Nemelka has the right to go forward because that’s what you said about him.”  I am the one who stopped the lawsuit because I can’t stand court.  I can’t stand suing.  I can’t be in the court.

S:  How long did that run on for?

C:  Oh, it went on for about a year and the judge kept waiting for me to continue it and I said no.  I had no desire to go to court.  I had no desire for publicity, Stephen.  But what I do have the desire for is that the people have the opportunity and the chance to hear the truth, my side of the story, instead of the slanted versions that come from all of my enemies, which I don’t have very many enemies, everybody likes me, but ya know.  (Lots of laughter.)

S:  Let’s pick it up, where – - so you come out of jail back in 2002 and then Lindberg – - you then had more battles with Lindberg.

C:  Lindberg  put me on – - after I already served all that time – - two years of intensive probation.  I couldn’t go out of my house past 6 o’clock.  It was incredible.  And one has to ask himself, “What in the hell did she do that for?”  And when you go and you pull the files and you know what really happened, you’ll see in court she said, “Mr. Nemelka, it is not a secret that I do not like you.”  Okay?  My attorney was there, my sister and others were there.  So we went and pulled that tape, Stephen.  We went and pulled that tape.  She had erased that part.  It starts right after she says that note, shortly thereafter.  Lindberg is one of the worst judges that’s ever been on that bench and people are starting to see that now and hopefully they will.  But that’s a fact.  That’s what she did.  That’s what she said.  So, based on that, when she let me out on probation and then those women — talking about Christine, Jackie, and Marcie, and all the ones that I had rejected — were so pissed off because I had married the other Sheri.  I said forget this crap and I ran.  She put out a cash only warrant for my arrest because I knew this: I knew that some day she wouldn’t have that case anymore, so I kept track of it.  And the day that she didn’t have that case, I wrote a letter to the judge that did have that case and said, “I’m on the run, here’s the deal, I’m gonna come and turn myself in.”  I did that, came back.  Judge Royal Hansen looked over the mess and he closed the case.  If I was such a bad guy and I did something so terribly wrong, why didn’t the Judge Royal Hansen, when I turned myself in, punish me for that?  He didn’t because he knew I had cause.  There ya go.  That ended that.

S:  Before we curtail that one, in the Rachel – - the Rachel lawsuit we’ll call that one – -there’s an affidavit by a friend of yours, who says – - you remember him?

C:  Jeff Richens.

S:  Ya, Jeff Richens.  What’s his response to his claims there?

C:  Okay.  Here’s what all you need to know about Jeff Richens, okay?  He lied to his mother about being out of jail early, okay?  He got out of jail early.  The same day he got out of jail he was picked up by none other than Christine Marie.  He went and had sexual relations with Christine Marie the same day, and then the next day he went to my fiancé Sheri Nemelka, told her all these lies and bullshit about me and had sex with her–my own fiancé, the next day.  So he had sex with Christine Marie the day he got out, had sex with my own fiancé the next day.  So you tell me if he’s credible.  Everything he said was a lie.  Everything he said to those women he said to get in their pants.  And he was a great cause of that.  Now, my fiancé at the time listened to the lies and did her bit of research like you did — an investigative reporter should do — and she found out it was it was untrue, and she found out that Jeff Richens was nothing more than the predator.  So you ask yourself this question, and you can ask Christine Marie this because she knows goddamn well it’s true: “Did this Jeff Richens guy — once he got out of jail and you picked him up — did you have sex with him that same night?  She will say, “Yes, I did,” if she’s not lying.  She won’t lie.  She gets things messed up in her head.  And then you can ask my ex, “Did you have sexual relations with Jeff Richens?”  “Yes, I did.”

S:  So, now I’m confused.  Sheri – - when I met you four years ago who were you with then?

C:  I’m still with her.  Her name is Sheri, too.

S:  Okay, that’s where the confusion was — the two Sheri’s.

C:  Well ya, I’m a smart guy.  When you find a new wife the same name as your ex then you don’t have to worry about, ya know, saying the wrong name.  Don’t put that in, I’m just kidding.  It just so happened that they both had the same name, which is interesting.  That’s what I can say about Jeff Richens.  Okay, let me tell you this.  You’re [the] main man, whoever did the story, what’s his name again?

S:  Ben Fulton.

C:  Ben Fulton.  He interviewed Jeff Richens and made a determination that this guy is not credible at all.  It didn’t say anything about him in there.  What Ben Fulton didn’t understand is, that I was so scared of Judge Denise Lindberg that I would have said and done anything to make it seem like I was repenting of doing whatever it is that I was doing.  And that’s where the whole story got convoluted.  All the interviews were done in jail; they were all done in duress because Fulton was threatening me with a letter.  He sent me a letter and said, “If you don’t have an interview with me,” because I refused to see him in jail; I refused to talk to him.  Then he sent me a letter and said, “If you don’t we’re going to run this story with out your insight” and I thought, “Oh my god, Judge Denise Lindberg is going to kick my butt.”  So I got a hold of him, called him and I gave him the bullshit that I gave him.  That’s exactly what happened.  So one has to look at this and think, “Well, Jesus Christ, look what happened to that dude.  He has served his whole time — the full sentence of a class A misdemeanor — and he’s never done a thing wrong in his life.”  That was the first charge ever that I had plead guilty to myself.  And when you get that all – - well that’s all anyway.  That’s a whole other story.  You’ll get it all in my biography.  But what the hell do you think a judge with that power – - who is LDS and found out about The Sealed Portion claims and the women who had been involved with me – - she made it a personal vendetta right against me, and I did anything at the time to cover my butt, because at the time, between the years of 1991 and 2003, I didn’t have anything to do with this Work.  I told them to shove it, pretty much.  Don’t put that like that.  I had dismissed this Work and given it back to the advanced human beings who direct it, telling them that it was not worth it to lose my children.  I lost two kids in 1991.  But I didn’t get the Work back till – -

S:  “Dismiss this work and shove it” – - what?

C:  I didn’t want anything else to do with this Work because in 1991 I got my two kids taken away from me and it just wasn’t worth it.  I wasn’t going to go through with it.  And it wasn’t until November of 2003 that I got the Work back.  So during that time, almost 12 years, I was doing all kinds of weird things that I shouldn’t have been doing.  But did I do them because I was mean, or because I was a predator, or anything like that?  No.  For god sakes, if I’m such a predator to all these enemies, then find the women that have been predatated, who have been predatated upon or whatever you call it.  You can’t find them because they don’t exist.  They’re not there.  Yes, I had relationships with women.  And the relationship soured then I turn into a mean, harsh man when I told them I don’t want anymore relations with them.

S:  The women scorned scourge – -

C:  The women scorned!  Find one that left me.  You can’t.  There ya go.  Your own newspaper has what happened with Vickie, when she told her story: “He sat us down and he told us that, and me and Marcie were very upset.”  And being upset they did what they did.  I mean, sheez, I wish we had them all here.  They wouldn’t meet with me and you.

S:  So in 1991 is when you had the visitation in the temple?

C:  No.  That was 1987.

S:  So between ’87 and ’91 you – -

C:  Travelling around the country with Jackie trying to find a place where I could feel comfortable to start the translation of the plates, it was that simple.  And we ended up in Victor, Montana.  I mean that’s all pretty much written.

S:  I know, I just wanted to get a feel for the – -

C:  You bet.  A synopsis is easy: June 16th, 1987, Joseph Smith came to me in the temple; gave me the assignment.  Shortly thereafter, in the first part of 1988, I left everything, family, everything; took Jackie and my kids and we went travelling around trying to find a place where I felt comfortable.  Finally, in 1991, there was some things that happened and my kids got taken away from me; two of my kids that I had custody of.  A whole other story.  At that point I said, “No more.  I ain’t doing this Work.  It’s not worth it.  I’d rather be a father and a husband than do this Work.”  Well, for the next twelve years, until November 2003, I was messing up all over the place.  So what society needs to do is give me a mulligan from 1991 to 2003, November of 2003, because I was doing things that were inappropriate, because I had given it all up and I didn’t care anymore because I understand things that people don’t understand about free will, about human nature, and how we’re responsible for our own actions, and I simply did what I thought was best.  That’s why I got involved with that polygamist group.  That’s why I did that, to help those women.  But I didn’t help them, I hurt them.  So from 1991 to November of 2003, I was wrong, acting by the seat of my pants, in some arrogance, doing things that really are unbecoming of someone who really understands real truth.  But after that time, I dare anyone to be able to find where I have been abusive, manipulative, or predatory toward anyone.  Not even my dear friend Julie.  (31:00)

S:  You defy anyone to find someone whom you’ve victimized?

C:  They’ll claim it.  There’s people that have been involved with this Work who I have offended simply by saying, “You don’t know what truth is.”  And they leave and say they were victimized by me.

S:  Put it again in your own words, up to that time.

C:  I defy anyone to find any individual who I have victimized in a – - that’s outside of this Work, outside the Marvelous Work And A Wonder®.  And when I say that, “is outside the Marvelous Work And A Wonder,” I’m referring to – - there’s been literally tens of all kinds of people who have come to me with a desire to be part of this Work and part of me.  But they come up [to] a guy who doesn’t want a friend; he doesn’t want followers; he doesn’t want disciples; there’s no religion to be had here; and when these people start touting their own beliefs and their own ideas that they think should be incorporated, or not, into this Work, I offend them by saying, “You’re not in charge of this Work and I don’t want anything to do with you.”  And so they think that’s harsh.  No.  It simply means me saying, “I don’t want anything to do with you, you go your way and I’ll do this Work.”  But because they’ve embraced this Work – - like – - there’s a guy – - you might know him, his name is Harry Dschaak.

S:  I’ve met him, I think, when we last talked and it was like 2007 or 6 at the library, and he was like a pig farmer or something.

C:  Ya.  I mean he’s a good guy but fact is I knew from the start this guy isn’t going to last because he has a big ego — personal value for himself.  But he accepted The Sealed Portion, the 666 book, the Sacred, Not Secret book.  But when it came time for me to do some other things that he didn’t agree with, he turned against me.  I mean he didn’t turn against me, he just said, “Chris is acting with his own will, not by God’s will.”  I said, “Bullshit, I’m doing exactly what I’m supposed to do.”  And he couldn’t handle that, and I said, “Well no one needs to listen to you Harry because your opinion doesn’t matter.”  And that’s what I said in public online and it offended him bad.  He got all butt hurt, but the fact is this:  Is The Sealed Portion true?  If The Sealed Portion is true, then Christopher obviously is under the direction of the beings and the people of who he claims to be.  And if he is under that direction, then everything that follows The Sealed Portion and everything that incorporates the Marvelous Work And A Wonder has got to be true also by default.  I mean you can’t – - back in Joseph’s time, there was always, “Oh, I believe the Book of Mormon but Joseph is a false prophet.”  (f)uuuucck.  It’s either true or it’s not.  If it’s not true, then neither is Joseph Smith nor anything that follows it is, you see?  I’m saying this because the people that were offended are the ones that I — with a smile on my face, Stephen — I would say to them, “You know, the revelation that you’re getting from your god, is not my god, you have nothing to do with this Work; and I don’t value your opinion because it has nothing to do with this Work.”  And they’re all, “You don’t know me!  God knows my heart!”  “Well, then go serve your god,” and it offends them and I don’t care.

S:  So you are not a church; you’re not a movement; you’re a guy who advance[d] beings have given some of your memories back?  Is that right?

C:  Only to do one thing; – -

S:  Translate the gold plates?

C:  - – it always is incorporated into one thing: disseminate the real truth to the people of the world, or in other words, give the people of the world the opportunity to know the real truth about what’s going on in this universe.  That’s it.  I’m one who offers information.  That’s it.  The Work is about nothing else.  If you try to follow me you’re going to get offended.  I don’t see any – - the person I see the most is my wife, Sheri.  Everybody else – - you try to find somebody who I spend more [than] an hour with a week.  Anyone.

S:  You live near Ida and Julie lives there, too?

C:  Sometimes.

S:  So I had come under the impression that it has come to be a little Christopher community.

C:  Heavens no.  There’s condominiums over there that came open and they just happened to find those.  Julie was in a situation where she didn’t really have a stable place and this opened up.  I said, “Hey, look at this.  Let’s get this place.”  And with her credit and what went down she was able to get that place and that’s it.

S:  Did she give you 200,000 dollars?

C:  No.  Oh, no.  She didn’t give 200,000 dollars.  What she did when the Work first started, she published a bunch of the books, which cost quite a bit of money.  She published the books — which a lot of them are still sitting in a garage here in Salt Lake City.  And she paid for advertising; she paid for a lot [of] the expenses to get this work going.  And that’s pretty much all she did.  And if there – - there’s another thing that needs to be made known for crying out load: Christopher Nemelka doesn’t make one penny off this Work.  Not one red cent.  Jiminy Christmas.  Recently, we had an investigation with the IRS.  Federal agents showed up to Ida’s house, Stephen.  Federal agents knocked on the door.  Now they’re coming up against Ida.  You gotta ask her about this.  And they say, “We want to talk to you about this place.  Why did you put it in Sheri Nemelka’s name?  And we want to know all about my child support.”  And Ida said – - what she said to me, “Shouldn’t you be talking to Christopher about that?”  “We don’t want to talk to him.”  They threatened to kick her out of that house, okay?  I had to get an attorney involved to give them a call and tell those federal agents, “You better back up – - off everybody I know buddies.”  But anyway, they did an intense investigation into my life-style, into my finances, the IRS got involved when it came to the Worldwide United Foundation.  The investigation went on to, I don’t know how long, and they found nothing and closed the case.  So, what does that tell you?  I mean, come on.

S:  Do you have anything work-related to that?

C:  No.  They were just federal agents.  They wanted me.  They thought I was running this scheme or scam or something, hiding all this money and things like that.  Up in the night, Stephen.

S:  And um, when was this?

C:  This last year.  Oh, no, it was this year.  I think it was this year that they came to Ida’s door.

S:  And Ida had come from being the BYU Women’s Research Institute director to the FBI kicking in her door?

C:  It is nuts.  You know what, Stephen?  Here’s what’s interesting.  I can’t even go to K-mart and buy a B-B gun because they got me on their anti-terrorism list.  Me.  I’ve never done – -

S:  They got you on the anti-terrorism list?

C:  I was told that.  So, I went and tried to get a gun at K-mart, to see.  And for sure enough the guy called up and I’m not only on the state but the federal list, that I can’t buy a firearm.

S:  It can’t be,

C:  It’s illegal!

S:  That doesn’t make any sense.  But you haven’t committed any crimes involving firearms.

C:  Nothing.  Not even a felony.  But they can do what they want.  You know that.  This new Patriot Act.  I’m known as a rebel, one of those insurgents.  Whatever.  They got me pegged as some kind of a monster, anti-American this and that.  It’s just silly.

S:  Do you think behind that is the LDS Church and Bob Bennett?

C:  Oh, of course.  Both.  Once Ida got involved – -

S:  The stakes were raised seriously, because that’s obviously one of the reasons I’m here.

C:  - – Ida took The Sealed Portion and hand-delivered it to Bob Bennett.  She took the Human Reality book and put it in Bob Bennett’s hands and said, “You gotta read this book.”   Of course, he [didn't] read any because he knew from whom they came.  They interceded.  They tried to, quote-unquote, “save” this woman from me.  What they didn’t understand is, they didn’t trust Ida too much because if you tried to save her from anything that lady will come at you like, “Who the hell do you think I am?  Don’t you think I can stand up for myself and think on my own?”  And that’s how she treated them.  And when she confronted Jeff Holland, who’s this LDS Apostle, she said, “Have you met Christopher?”  ”Well, no, I haven’t.”  She put him on the carpet.  She – - I think you already know this – - she actually recorded that conversation.

S:  Did you ask her to do that?

C:  No.  I didn’t ask her to do that.  She did it on her own.  I believe she did it for her own sake, to protect her integrity.

S:  She said that because she had been going through these legal issues with you.  She realized that if she – - if it became her words versus Jeffrey Holland’s, who would they believe?

C:  Right.  Well, who would you believe?

S:  A woman who would join – - who read The Sealed Portion and found it to be true.

C:  Join what?

S:  That’s why I changed it to read The Sealed Portion and found it to be true.

C:  Ya seen what [I] mean, join what?  There’s nothing to join.

S:  The general exception is that – - you know – - that this theory of movement around a hundred people or less.

C:  Hundreds?  There’s been thousands of downloads of that Sealed Portion.  I know literally hundreds of people that have already changed their lives that have sent me emails, “Thank you so much.”  But I told you this from the beginning, from the very beginning, Stephen, I don’t want anybody following me.  The moment I can sense somebody putting me up on a pedestal and treating more than just a man, a messenger, I will put them in their place.  And that has offended many, many, many people.   But, oh well!  I’ve had people come up to me with tens of thousands of dollars to give to me and this Work, Stephen, and I rejected them, “No, sorry, don’t need your money, don’t want it.”  Knowing exactly the type of problem that would cause.

S:  So, why take Julie’s money to publish it?

C:  Julie wanted this Work to go forward.  I knew darn well that this Work was going to be black-listed; black-balled by media and everybody else.  But Julie was intent about doing whatever she could.  So I said, “Okay, Julie, let’s do it your way.”  We published the books, we did the advertising, we did all those things and she, because of her staunch belief in this Work, she would’ve done anything for this Work.  Now, think about that.  If that’s the case and this Work is of such – - how would you say – - that this Work can convince a person such as an Ida, or a Julie–and many of these other people, smart people; and they would do anything for this Work, why doesn’t Christopher take advantage of them?  Why doesn’t he do that?  Why doesn’t he take advantage, why doesn’t he have fifty wives?

S:  How do you survive?  You don’t work.

C:  Sheri works.  Sheri takes care of me completely.  Sheri works for a doctor.  She’s a medical assistant.  Doctor Nathan Davis.  Nathan Davis, who’s the doctor, is one who read The Sealed Portion — change[d] his entire life.

S:  The Davises who you’ve mentioned in your journals.

C:  Whose kids we watch.  Whose parents – -

S:  Who went on that late summer trip in September – -

C:  Ya, whose parents were freaking out.  I mean they just – - because the LDS have this perception that I’m just the devil’s messenger, because it comes down to this: If the LDS Church is true then, indeed, I am the devil’s messenger.  Because anyone who reads these books and studies them is going to leave that LDS Church.  They’re not going to pay their tithing anymore; they’re not going to believe in the LDS principles.  But on the other hand, those outside the LDS Church – - even your paper surprises me.  It really surprises me how you guys haven’t caught on to what this Work can do for other people.  Okay, because, with all due respect to City Weekly, which I think is a wonderful thing to have in the midst of the Mormon-published papers, which is what the Tribune and Deseret News are — bar none — even the Tribune says they’re not, but they are.

S:  Did you pay for that one month of advertisement?

C:  No, Julie did.

S:  Wait a minute.  Somebody paid for it for one month and then they pulled it after two days?

C:  They found out what it was and pulled it.

S:  Don’t they read their own funeral section?

C:  Oh, come on.

S:  I guess obviously not.

C:  Now here’s my point with you and your editors.  I’d love to meet with your editors and tell them, “Look, with all due respect, your publication, when read by a staunch LDS person, is not going to do anything to persuade them that their religion is doing wrong.  It’s not going to persuade a staunch LDS person to support homosexuality and love those people.  But this Work does.  Monica Smith had a published story in your paper that said, “I found The Sealed Portion and it changed my entire life and my mind about homosexuality.  I love and support homosexuals now, I support people.”  She was sit-on-the-front-row Molly Mormon, and your paper ran her story, yet they don’t want anything to do with me.  You know why?  Because they’re pissed.  They’re pissed and they think, “Oh, we don’t want him to sue us or anything.”  I can guarantee you I ain’t gonna sue your paper.  I don’t care if your story says, “In this reporter’s opinion, this Christopher Nemelka is no different than Joseph Smith — he’s a charlatan – - what do you call him – -opportunist.”  Whatever it is that you feel about him, “He’s smart and is able to come up with this stuff.”  I don’t care.  It doesn’t bother me that you guys do that.  If you knew how this Work could change the lives of people, just by knowing what it does for knowing Ida, Julie, Davis’s, anybody you would interview, you guys would think, “Now wait a minute, maybe we should let people know that this Sealed Portion is out there.”  Because nobody knows.  I don’t do anything.  I’m not a predator, like an LDS missionary.  They are the ones that do the predatation.  They go out knocking doors; they go out preaching their religion; they go out trying to tell people that they’re wrong.  I don’t do anything like that.  Because people who are looking for the truth will be led to this truth, and more of the people who you interview who embrace this, the more you will say, “Oh, my God, nothing could have gotten through to these people,” but that Sealed Portion, and that 666 book, and finally the Human Reality book.  Which takes us to another story of when the Human Reality came out.  My nephew got killed.  People think that, “Oh, he used the opportunity to promote the. . . .”  Bullshit!  You media do[n]‘t know what happened.  I know my brother.  I know what he was saying to those kids.  I know how he was telling those children, his owns kids, Aaron, that he was useless.  I heard [that] growing up most of my life, “You’re useless as tits on a bo[ar].  You either get out there and do something, either go on a mission or join the army.”  Aaron wanted nothing to do with a mission, so he joined the army.  And look what happened.  I had every right — as his uncle who knew circumstances the media didn’t — to stand up and say, “Wait a minute, my nephew did not die a hero, he died a victim of his family, of his religion, of his country.”  I did not use that as the platform to publish Human Reality.  It was already coming out.  I dedicated the first print to my nephew to try to get people to think.  And anyone who has not read the Human Reality book had no right to try and claim that that’s what I was doing, because I’ve never made a penny off that Human Reality book and I never will.  Furthermore,  it’s by an anonymous author.  Did I write it?  No.  “Who wrote it then Christopher?”  Anonymous.  That’s who wrote it.  Did I publish it?  Yes.  Was I responsible for getting it published?  Yes.  But who actually wrote that book?  You wouldn’t believe me if I told you, Stephen.  So, the author is “Anonymous.”  But unless you sit down and you read that book, and you see the power of that book, you have no right, no one has the right, to judge my motives.  None.  Because I can find you some interviews with some teenagers who couldn’t care less about religion or anything else and they’ve read that Human Reality book and it has opened their eyes and freed them up and given them a whole new outlook on life.  Where they stopped drugs, stopped alcohol, they stopped all the bad things that society thinks are bad because they read the Human Reality book.

S:  So your nephew was a victim of your family, LDS faith, military, country?

C:  Family, faith, country.  The same as Nidal Hasan, the guy who killed him.  The same.

S:  I watched that video where you talked about that and at the end the book comes, and I guess that’s where that kinda knick comes to some people – -

C:  No, not at all.  You gotta read the book.  (49:16)  Because when you read the book you’ll see it’s for the youth.  It has nothing to do with a motive [or] a platform.  But that book would have come out anyway.  In fact, the publisher’s the one that made the suggestion and I inquired of those who run this Work, and they said, “Yes, let it go.”  It will stand as a memorial of how I stood up to my family.  Of course, my family has nothing to do with me and well they shouldn’t because they’re LDS, a lot of them,  American, they love their country, they love their religion, and they don’t love me.

S:  Your sister, Alesa.  She still with you?

C:  I cut my bonds with all of them.

S:  Did your brother Joe – - did he die?

C:  No, he’s around.  My bond with my brother Joe was hardest one to break.  He’s a good guy.  He’s an attorney here in Salt Lake City.  Good guy.  But I didn’t want to bring my family into the fray of this Work.  I knew what was going on.  I knew that someday that memorial would be placed, and I didn’t want the Nemelka family or any of my brothers, sisters, kids to have any repercussions from this Work.  So, based on that, I alienated myself from all of my family, and I have nothing to do with my family now.  My choice.  And even if I did, they don’t like me too much anyway, so – -

S:  So, who said, “Useless as tits on a bo[ar]?”  Was that your dad?

C:  My dad; my step-mom growing up; that’s what they say.  If you don’t go on a mission you better be doing something else with your life.

S:  And you went on a mission?

C:  I went on a mission.  Buenos Aires.

S:  What part of Buenos Aires were you in?

C:  Well, Buenos Aires; Belgrano.  There’s a city of Belgrano, Paso del Rey.  Just in Argentina.  It was the Argentina North Mission.  Buenos Aires is the city and there’s different parts.

S:  I lived in Buenos Aires for ten years.

C:  Oh, there ya go.  Bel Grano. I was there in Bel Grano.  That was the main place where I lived.  Then I was out in Paso del Rey.

S:  I’m trying to imagine you in [a] white shirt and black tie.

C:  Sure.  I was a great missionary.  I loved it.  But I came home and got working for the Church and then I got this calling.  It’s not like I was looking for this calling ya know.  Some people say, “Well, he just wanted to be something more than what he was so he invented this role for him[self].”  Ya, I invented it exactly like Joseph Smith did, you idiots!  Here’s the challenge.  Here’s the big challenge: Think of yourself living back in Joseph Smith’s time and this obscure guy comes out of the wood work and says, “Well, an angel’s been talking to me.  I got this gold bible now.”  Of course – -

S: Ida raised the same kinda thing.

C:  - – of course.  What the hell do these LDS people think?  They are doing the same thing but they’re setting it up a little bit differently.  And when you get Joseph’s biography you’re going to understand it completely different than you do now, Stephen.  We’re publishing what’s called this: “Without Disclosing My True Identity — The Authorized and Official Biography of the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr.” That’s it’s title.  It’s copyrighted.  That’s what it’s going out to be.  It’s the authorized and official.  Why is it the authorized and official?  Because it’s the only one that he personally has authorized as official.  It’s the only one that tells the truth, the real truth, and gets behind the scenes of everything that happened, to show it why it happened.

S:  Because you’re having visitations with him – -

C:  Of course.

S:  - – to give you his life story.

C:  The Urim and Thummim is nothing more than a cell phone — it’s a cell phone connected to another world, or where these guys reside.  That’s it.  It’s that easy to understand.  You can pick up your phone; you can call any part of this world.  I can pick up my “cell phone” and call other planets.  It’s that simple.  That’s all.  It gets text messages, streamline video, exactly like your technology does; their’s [is] advanced hundreds of thousands of years, disguised as two rocks.  That’s all it is.  Okay?  This whole work, Stephen, is coming at this time to this world for one purpose only: to give the human race a chance; a chance to know what real truth is.  Whether they believe it or not, that’s their problem.  But they have to have the chance because it’s never been revealed before.  Ever.  Nobody knows about advanced human beings.  I mean, that’s a speculatio[n] based on common sense where one looks at the universe and says, “Well, that’s a possibility.”  But they still don’t have any answers about where we’re c[o]me from.  They still don’t have any answers on how we became human when there’s all kinds of other animals out there.  And if evolution is such a great thing, then why aren’t other animals evolving?  They’re not.  They’re not even close to what we’re like.  But religion is the answer to the questions that have been given.  And it’s all been wrong.

S:  And you know, Ida talks that frank with me and, uh, says more or less the same things.  If we can backtrack for a moment to 2003, when you said you were on the road while waiting for them to take the case away from Lindbers [sic], is that when you were in California looking after Charlie?

C:  Yup.  I was in California.  That’s where I was at the whole time and I was just waiting for Lindberg to be replaced.

S:  And how did you come into meeting Charlie’s family?  Are you a licensed caretaker?

C:  Oh, no.  It was kinda a miraculous thing.  You would have to contact his family, his mother.  She knows me probably better than any other woman outside of this Work.  Does she believe in this Work?  I don’t know.  You gotta ask her.  Get her phone number and you can talk to her.  But she’s more my mother than anybody.  She knows me personally.  I remember I talked to you, and I told you, “Come down to San Diego and spend a few days with me, Stephen, if you really want to find out.”

S:  You did.  You know, I asked my editor and he wouldn’t authorize it.  (55:30)

C:  You know, all you gotta do is spend a few days with me, and once you do, you’re going to come across – - I believe you’re gonna say, “Well, hell, he’s just a guy.  We went out and got drunk, we talked about this and that,”  but my story will never vary.  Never.  It is a story – - I talked to Jesse… hmmm – -

S:  Furwirth.

C:  - – whatever it is.  And I told him, “Turn that off; off the record, let me tell you, everything about religion is bullshit.  It’s all bullshit.  Jesse, it’s all bullshit!  Everything about this Work is bullshit trying to counter bullshit.  But there are advanced human beings, and they direct me.”  I told him that.  “There are advanced human beings, Jesse,”  and he just “rah rah rah rah rah.”  He didn’t like me much anyway.

S:  Jesse has his own approach.

C:  I thought he was a pretty good guy.  I told him this upfront and said, “I know you’re gay.”  I said, “Jesse, don’t you realize that this Work takes people that were homophobic and turns them into gay lovers, who will respect your rights, who will support your rights?  So why wouldn’t you support a work that does that?  Because nothing you write in your paper is going to change these LDS people’s minds.  Only The Sealed Portion of the Book of Mormon is going to change their mind.  Why wouldn’t you do a story on it? Are you nuts?  If you want more support?  But, instead, you didn’t do a story on it.  The LDS Church had their way.  People don’t even know The Sealed Portion’s been translated.  Remember Ida’s story?  She had no idea.  And when she finally knew, she said, “Well, let me read it.”  She did, and it changed her entire life.  And it did turn it upside down.

S:  You seem to be advocating publicity while at the same time rejecting it.

C:  Rejecting publicity for myself.  For the Work?  No.  It’s the best thing that can happen.  But whether it does or not, is not my call.  Whether your story gets printed or not, I know it will or will not be done based on advanced human beings who control this.  You don’t know about them.  You probably don’t believe in them, but too bad.  You get stuff put in your mind over your life.  You’ve had certain weird things happen and you’ve wondered “well,” and you’ve had a great sense of, “I don’t know if that’s God or not, it’s probably my own mind,” and that’s how you should be, because God’s a bunch of bullshit.  So is the Jesus that everybody believes in.  But these advanced human beings are real.  And they’re going to deal with you whether you like it or not.  So whether this goes to print or not, I don’t know.  I, – - if – -

S:  Did Jesus Christ exist or not?

C:  Oh, yes.  The man Jesus did, but he did just like me.  What they have set up, they’ve set up my roll to parallel his, okay?  Jesus existed among the Jews, which were a very minority that lived in Jerusalem, which was part of the Roman Empire, just like the Mormon people are a minority of the United States Empire, okay?  But when Jesus went down, he went down to a people that thought they had the only truth; they thought they were the chosen people with the only true church of God, okay?  That’s what Jesus did, and he countered them and said, “No, that’s not true — everybody is; members of the family of God.”  And he taught them things that are totally contrary to their religion, exactly as I’m doing.  I’m teaching the exact same things.  And the Mormon people are treating me exactly as the Jews treated Jesus.  And it was meant that way.  Why was it meant that way?  And why are the Mormon/LDS people so important?  Well, there’s a very good possibility that in 2012, the most powerful man in the world is going to be a Mormon, and if that happens don’t you think that the people of the world are going to be interested about what a Mormon really is?  And that is why I have been mandated and directed to finish Joseph Smith’s Official and Authorized Biography by next year.  Because when it comes out, it’s not going to be sold because it’s free on the Internet.  Anybody can get it.  If they want a book they’ll have to order it from a publisher who gets all the proceeds.  But when they have the truth about what really happened, they’re going to look at that Mitt Romney and go, “Oh, my God, if we let a guy like that – - if we let a Mormon who believes they have the priesthood of God – - if we let them – - a man like that be the most powerful man in the world, we’re fucked.  Don’t put “fucked,” but you know what I mean — we’re screwed.  So, the purpose that these advanced human beings have done – - the LDS Church is powerful — more so than most people understand.  They have their tentacles in all aspects of business and government, and this Work is to counter that, Stephen, okay?  Because those people are just like the Jews — no different.  They’re the modern-day Jews.  And the same scenario is here today, so the people of the world can see the same scenario.  They’re going to reject me just like they did Jesus.

S:  Does that imply that you expect some type of crucifixion?

C:  Oh, no.  No.  I’m not Jesus.  They’re not going to crucify me because, according to The Sealed Portion, the Gentiles are going to protect me, okay?  Let me give you an example of how that would be.  If we would have gone to court on any of those matters –defamation in both cases — I would have won with a jury of my peers.  Because a jury of my peers would not be LDS people.  I wouldn’t allow them on the jury.  They couldn’t be because they’d be too biased, just like the judges.  If you go back and analyze what happened, here’s what’s cool.  When I first filed the suit, Lindberg was assigned.  She recused herself.  No, I’m sorry.  I’m sorry, that was another suit.  I sued a lot of people that year as I was supposed to.  But the first person that was assigned was the presiding judge, who was Paul Maughn; and he recused himself because he knew the General Authorities.  He knew he couldn’t listen to it.  So who did he assign?  One of the only Catholics on the Third District Court, Himonas [sp?].  He’s a Catholic, okay?  And he counseled him and he said, “This Nemelka’s crazy,” and blah blah blah blah, and that’s what those judges do.  So, if I would have had a jury of my peers, I would have won those cases hands down.  I can prove to anyone who wants to take the time to let me let out the proof, that I have done exactly what Joseph Smith did in his day.  Now, that’s where someone has to come to this conclusion: if you believe in Joseph Smith or not?  If they don’t believe in Joseph Smith then they’re going to put me in that same position that, “he’s just like him.”  If they do, and they don’t at least read The Sealed Portion like Joseph asked people to read the Book of Mormon, they’ve set themselves up to be a hypocrite.  Because that’s what they want you to do.  They want Stephen Dark to read the Book of Mormon.  ”Read this book, it’s the greatest thing, it’s the key of our religion.”  They don’t even read the goddamn book.  They don’t even read it.  They don’t even know what it says.  Now, when you understand where the Book of Mormon came from, when you understand where America came from, where all this happened, then you’ll understand how advanced human beings interact with us as mortals here on earth–helping us, giving us an opportunity to learn certain things required of this life.  And whether you believe it or not, it doesn’t matter.  What matters is, that it goddamn will make sense.  And that’s what this Work does.  And that’s why an Ida Smith — who knows more than most people about her LDS heritage — when she gets involved in this Work or she listens to me she goes, “Now this guy knows what he’s talking about; he answers all my questions — bar none.”  That is what grabbed her.  That is what keeps her involved.  That is why she would do anything.  She filled out her will giving everything to the Marvelous Work And A Wonder when she dies.  It pissed her family off because, get this, her family, her younger sister and her kids, were going to get everything of Ida’s, okay, when she died.  Well, she changed her will, giving everything to the Marvelous Work And A Wonder, so what the hell do you think her family’s going to think?  She’s gone looney.  But what happens if she would have changed everything to will everything to the LDS Church?  She would have been a heroine, “Oh ya, great Ida.”  But no, when she finally finds the truth and she wills everything to this Work they start, “Oh, that’s not right because now we don’t get the however much she had in her retirement.”  Ya see?  It’s a family thing.

S:  Do you know how much the woman’s worth?

C:  Oh, I don’t know.  I mean her place; I just don’t know and I don’t care.

S:  Her apartment and her car.

C:  Whatever it is.  And it doesn’t matter.

S:  But isn’t the Marvelous Work And A Wonder – - isn’t that in your name?

C:  No.  I’m the Trustee.  It’s a Trust.  I’m the Trustee of the Work.  But the Marvelous Work And A Wonder® is a registered trademark, okay?  No one can use that.  After 2012 when we officially announce this Work, you use that and you’re gonna have an attorney right on ya.  The Marvelous Work And A Wonder is what the LDS people call their work.  It’s what the Book of Mormon claims to be the work of the Lord in the latter-days.  But this is the Marvelous Work And A Wonder.  What they’re doing is a marvelous quirk and a blunder.

S:  Is a what?

C:  Marvelous quirk and a blunder.  It’s a Brigham Young blunder.  That’s where it came from.  When you get the facts of what happened back then you’re gonna go, “Oh, my God, this makes complete sense.”

S:  So – - uh – - what came first, Charlie dying or you being informed that Judge Hanson took the case over?

C:  Hanson took the case over first.  He closed it and it freed me up.  And – - uh – - Charlie died soon thereafter and that’s where I came – - that was in 2007  - – in the early part.  In 2007, I spent a year under mandate suing everybody I could, taking everybody to court as much as I could to get my side – - the purpose of that was to allow me to get a public record of my side of the story.  You know, you had those women lying, and also I wanted to see my kids, and I tried hard to get to see my kids, and the women used every means they could come up with to not allow me to see those kids.

S:  Haven’t you said, though, in the past not to sue people?

C:  Oh, sure.  Stephen, you’re not even supposed to tell somebody that their religion is wrong.  But, I, unfortunately – - I have to disregard all those basic rules of good humanity to do this Work, okay?  And so that’s what I have to do.  I’m the ultimate hypocrite because I’m under mandate to violate the very code of humanity that I’m supposed to be teaching people to abide by, okay?  And that’s part of this role.  It’s like Jesus when he told the Jews that they were hypocrites, children of hell, you serpents and vipers — you’re not supposed to cut a person’s religion down, you’re supposed to love people and deal with them with respect no matter what it is.  And once this role is complete, I’ll be able to do that with a great “awe,” because that’s all I want to do. That’s all I want to do.  But for now, under this mandate, I violate the very gospel of Christ that I perpetuate.  And that’s just me.  But I was told to sue only to allow a public record of my side, so anybody who’s interested can go pull the files just like you did and say, “Okay, I see Nemelka’s responses, I see them just right here.  He make his responses.  I see they’re responses.  At least I have a record.  I got both stories.”  Where, had I not done that, you would’ve only had their story; their side.  But my biography is going to cover all that — my personal biography will cover detail; everything from birth all the way up, and then you’ll understand.

S:  As that lawsuit regarding John Llewelyn  progressed, you ended up being interviewed by him twice?

C:  Oh, ya.  John Llewelyn was always interested in what I was doing.  Twice.  He was always trying to talk to me and I talked with him a few times, not really interviewed with him, there was nothing to say.  He was wrong and he didn’t know me from Adam.  And once he got to know me he found out that I, “Well I guess he’s not a polygamist, he doesn’t believe in polygamy.  I was wrong.”

S:  Didn’t he put you in his book?  What did he say?

C:  Oh ya.  Well, he put me in this paragraph of all these polygamists, Warren Jeffs and Tom Green, and he put me in there.  It was an insinuation and it was obvious – - and Chris Nemelka – - and he got that from Vickie.  You have – -

S:  Did you practice polygamy?

C:  For three months.  I told you what I did.  I went in there because I was messed up in the mind and I wanted to help people.  I knew the only way to help Vickie and Marcie – - women out of polygamy – - is to become their husband and get them to trust ya and tell them it was a crock and that’s exactly what I did.  And how else did they get out?  What the hell did those women tell ya?  They got out because of me, Stephen.  The Tapestry Against Polygamy happened because of me, not because of Vickie.  Problem is, she’s not going to tell you the whole truth.  But when you go back and look at the facts you’re gonna see.  ”Wait a minute, Vickie, how do you know you wouldn’t have stayed in as one of these Fundamentalists if Nemelka hadn’t come along, taken you as one of his, quote- unquote, “spiritual wives” and then convinced you that it was all crock?  How do you know that Vickie?”  “Well, na na na na,” let her say what she wants, but bless their souls.  I’m gonna treat them with kid gloves in my biography, because it wasn’t their fault.  I was a man who was hurt from losing my kids.  I gave back the Gold Plates and Urim and Thummim.  Didn’t want anything to do with this work, and I was on a mission to do whatever I could – -

S:  You gave them back in 1991?

C:  ’91.  Timothy came and got them back.  He took them back and that was it.  I thought it was over.  I didn’t care because I know how things work with those beings.  They didn’t need me.  They didn’t need a Christopher Nemelka.  They could’ve found a Stephen Dark to do the work if they wanted to.  But that’s why I want you to hang out with me for a few days and you’ll see, “Hell, it’s going to take a Christopher Nemelka to do this because I don’t give a rat’s ass what people think about me.  I don’t care.”  I’m not out there to take anybody’s money, takes anybody’s wife, or do anything.  But I’m going to disseminate  information, give it to people and let them decide what I’m going to do with it.  But as I sit here I will never deny you or anyone else if there are not advanced human beings out there directing this Work.  They can give me a lie detector test — they can do anything they want and the conclusion will always be the same:  There are advanced human beings far more advanced than we are, who are responsible for this solar system and it’s construction and placing us here to go through a stage, and they are overseeing this Work.  Now, I’m either crazy – - one of three things:  I’m either crazy and delusional, I’m either making it all up because I’m a genius; somehow I just made it all up and can write these books just like that, or the third thing you won’t even consider and that’s that the devil is inspiring me.

S:   The devil.

C:  The devil.  I mean, if you’re a religious person you’d think that because this takes people out of religion.  So it’s one of the three.

S:  Crazy/delusional, making it up, or the devil inspires you?

C:  Or the fourth – -

S:  It’s true?  So there’s actually four – -

C:  It’s true.  Four things.  And a person, if they sincerely, with real intent, research it, they would know.  I mean, you probably tried to read The Sealed Portion and couldn’t even get through because it’s not for you.

S:  That’s a very accurate statement.  I could not get through it.

C:  It’s not for you.  It’s silliness to you.

S:  I could not get through it.

C:  Wait till you get Joseph’s biography.  You’re gonna love it.  It makes Fawn Brodies’ No Man Knows My History seem like a – -

S:  I’m reading that right now.

C:  Alright, when you get that compare it to this biography and you’d go like, “Oh my God” because it answers every question.

S:  I was told last night about the glorious LDS Church response to the LDS: “No Ma’am, That’s Not My History.”

C:  Oh, the ‘ol LDS people.  You know, when we gave that memorial – - which is off where you’re going – - I’m sorry, I’m just rambling off – - but the attorney took off work – -

S:  Do you have a bit more time?

C:  What’s that?

S:  Do you have a bit more time?

C:  Oh, ya.  I got all the time you need.  Whatever you need.

S:  It’s your birthday.  I’m sure there are those who would like to take you out to lunch for your birthday (to celebrate?).

C:  I don’t let anyone celebrate my birthday.  Stephen, if I turned this around and I showed you the amount of emails I got about, “Hey, I’d like to give you this, I’d like to give you that, I’d like to do this for ya,”  I ignore them all.  I will not see another soul today except Sheri, my wife.  Nobody.  Think about that.  Why don’t I do that, Stephen?  Why don’t I put myself out there, man?  I had a lady give me 36,000 dollars.  She came here with all of her savings.  She gave it to me.  It was a cashiers check and I said, “No.  Don’t want it.  It’s your money.  You keep it and have a good time with it.”  “But what can I do for you and this Work?”  All I tell anyone is, “Go out there and treat your neighbor as you’d want to be treated.”  Why don’t I do it?  Goddamn, Stephen – - I don’t mean this in anyway – - if you and I went into a club and I wore the right clothes, any woman in there is mine.  I have the ability.  I know what they think.  I know how to do it, but I don’t.

S:  The Diary of a Player?

C:  The Diary of a Player is a good example.  I wrote that for a college assignment when I wasn’t involved in this Work.  I’d given it up.  And the whole purpose of writing that was to teach women how these predators — these real predators — think.  Now here is why they chose me.  You want to know why these advanced beings chose me?  This is why.  Because I have the ability to manipulate, deceive, take people’s money, do everything everybody else does out there — but I don’t.  But I have that ability.  I have the ability to become an attorney, a doctor, I have the smarts — whatever it is I have that potential — but I’ve given that all up for this Work.  And I never abuse my abilities to take advantage of other people.  That’s why they chose me.  Because had they chosen an ugly, fat, bald guy with no potential, then everybody would be thinking, “Ah, we know why this guy is doing this, he’s trying to make – - give value to himself.”  Because guys like that, they seek for personal publicity.  They want their picture taken; they want a following; they want disciples; they want a church.  I want none of that.  If you even use any of this in your story, you’re not putting my picture in there, and if you want a picture in there it has to be something you get off the internet because you’re not taking my picture.  You can do whatever Ida wants you to do, but if you’re not, I don’t want that.  Because why?  I’m gonna walk into a place like this, when people are reading the City Weekly, and sit down here and not be noticed.  I wanna have my coffee and do my thing, be with people.  I don’t want them sitting there and going, “Good God, this guy’s the fucker who thinks he’s a prophet.”  I don’t want that – -

S:  I know.

C:  But I could have it.  But I could have it.

S:  So just so we’re clear, you will not run permission of someone taking your picture?

C:  I just don’t want it.  I don’t want personal publicity.  The publicity is all about this Work.  It’s not about Christopher Nemelka because people are going to take my name and – -

S:  My editor and my (art director?), they insist on looking for a picture for you on the Internet.

C:  Well, there’s one.  They took this one of me standing – - I don’t even remember who took that – -

S:  The white robe along the – -

C:  All it was – - a shirt, with these pants.  I have one pair of Levi’s.  Why would they want to take my picture?  You know, because according to the way – -

S:  Because Ida’s story is your story.  It’s all intertwined.  There would be no story about Ida without you.

C:  Ya, but there would be no story here without Ida, because if this work wasn’t affecting – - if it was affecting Mrs. Gonzales down the street and she’s a nobody – -

S:  Ida and I said the same thing yesterday.  It’s true.

C:  There you go.  But I don’t think you and your editors understand how big this story is.  You have no idea when this hits the stands how people will, “Oh, my God.”  Ya, it will look bad on me for whatever, on some whatever part,  but I don’t care.  If anyone is out there and they’re saying, “What the hell is going on here?” – -

S:  I was going over my notes I had with Ida yesterday and I had a lot of thoughts along those lines.

C:  In this market, of course, people are gonna go nuts – -

S:  In this state – -

C:  - – They’ve destroyed that memorial already and they’ll destroy it again.  We know who did it.  We know exactly who did it.

S:  Who did it?

C:  I can’t tell you that.  But we know who did it.

S:  How do you know?

C:  Stephen, come on.  Come on!

S:  Of course, silly me.

C:  Silly you.  You know, for someone like you to sit there and listen to this stuff, I can only imagine what must be going through your head.  I can only imagine what you must be thinking about me, like, “Goddamn, I don’t believe in what he’s saying but he’s certainly convincing; his story doesn’t change.”  And all I would caution you — not caution you, but as a man, as a friend, as a fellow human being — is consider, consider the possibility, that indeed they needed to make contact with someone and who would they choose?  Who could do the job without violating or taking advantage of other people in so doing?  And that’s why I’ve always told you, “Hang around with me a couple days and you’ll see how I interact with people.  I have a general love for all people, whether they’re LDS or not.  I have a great, great love for human beings.  But I also have a general disgust for those who think they’re right and nobody else is and – - but do I mistreat both?  No.  If you could see a video of this man named Jesus, a video of his life,  you would see me in those ancient times — same type of person.  No.  I’m not Christ.  I’m not a resurrected Christ or nothing like that.  Not at all.

S:  When did you realize you were the reincarnation of Hyrum Smith?

C:  See?  There’s another thing you’re probably looking at, like, oh hmmm… Joseph told me.  Well, he didn’t really need to tell me.  No, he was – - what happened in the temple when they changed my mind and kinda gave me some memories I remembered those incidences.  So, in a sense, he told me, but what happened – - what they do is they enhance your mind so that you’re able to recall things beyond this life.  Most people only get to revisit past lives in dreams, and it’s convoluted and mixed up and they don’t understand why they’re seeing these things.  But they adjusted that in my brain so that I could actually concentrate on certain events of past lives and they’re reality, just like I had breakfast yesterday.  But for you and other people in this life, they’ve constructed your brain so that you can’t remember past this life.  But people will not deny that they have things come in their heads.  They don’t know where they came from.

S:  Ida and I talked about déjà vu yesterday.  I had a familiar sense that I – - an inexplicable sense that I – - a familiarity of meeting somebody that you’ve met before.

C:  Well, – - and some of that can be construed according to the situation, you know, and what people believe about human emotion.  Well, Stephen, my man, no matter how much you get from me, no matter how much you contact me, it still going to come down to one thing, “What does Stephen Dark think or does Stephen Dark leave it to the public to decide for themselves?”

S:  I choose to [do] the second.  I put out your story and Ida’s story and I put out for people what the critics say, and I try to find a narrative that holds that and I put it out and – - uh – - it’s going to be a controversial story.

C:  And that’s the only reason why I’m talking to you, Stephen.

S:  But that’s the reason we’re talking.

C:  Because that’s the way you are.  If you were to do it for any other reason, you’re going to do if from Stephen Dark’s side, and his only, which I see Jesse Furwith doing a lot.  He’s a little bit more of an objective reporter than subjective, you can see that – -

S:  He is more objective.

C:  - – he’s more objective as a reporter.  He’s objective to what he’s doing, he’s got his mind fixed on something.  But I remembered you.

S:  And I wasn’t ready back then to tell the story.  I hadn’t lived here long enough to have a sense about the things you were telling me.  Now I feel more comfortable.  I’ve sat down with Ida, and it’s a story I want to tell.  It’s a story that – -

C:  Well, – -

S:  - – and it’s a very sorta twist and turn, things that you don’t expect, whether it’s the gravestone or the IRS agents.

C:  It wasn’t the IRS.  It was federal agents for the Office of Recovery Services.  They were federal agents – -

S:  About your child support?

C:  - – about my child support; my back child support.

S:  So why were they – - it was about your back child support – - why were they going to her?

C:  That’s what I mean.  They were investigating, thinking I was taking everybody’s money.  You can give me 10,000 dollars and it’s not income.  The fact is, when it comes to that child support issue – -

S:  How much do you owe?  I heard like 40,000 dollars.

C:  Ya, they say that, but that’s not true.  I would be glad – - Sheri and I would be glad to take out a loan and pay all back child support if it was fair.  And I told that to the ORS, to the agents.  I talked to the agent once on the phone, I said, “Just give me my day in court,” where the judge will let me talk.  If you had been that day in that court – - oh my god, it was ridiculous.

S:  Which court date?

C:  It was the court date when I went there – - when the judge put me in jail for non-payment.

S:  When was that?

C:  That was back, way back in 2007.  It was just Jackie’s way of not letting me see the kids.  But here’s what it come down to: when it come[s] to child support issues, Stephen, what do they base child support on?  The income of the father, correct?

S:  Um, I think so.

C:  Yes, that’s what they base it on.  So you tell me who’s going to hire me if I tell the truth on an application.  I’ve been charged with a felony of distributing harmful material to a minor, in that Sariah thing; I’ve been charged with a felony for kidnapping; I’ve been charged with battery; I’ve been charged with a lot of things.  But, of course, they dropped all the charges.  But that don’t matter.  I’m still charged with them, okay?  Would you hire me?  And then I have these claims that I talk with advanced human beings, and I deal with four semi-immortals.  Where am I going to get a job?  There’s only one place where I can get a job, Walmart.  And I got a job at Walmart, and I was working at Walmart full time and they were taking half of my wages for child support of which I think, “Okay, no problem.”  That dumbass judge put me in jail and made me lose that job!  That’s what I quit my job for.  And so he ended that quickly.  And now you tell me, who’s going to hire me?  You go ahead.  Nobody.

S:  I haven’t seen any of those charges.  I’ve forgotten about the retribution.

C:  Oh, they’re there.  Run a back ground check on me and you’ll see ‘em.  It’s crazy.  I still have over a ten-year-old protective order on Marcie’s case that I don’t do anything about.

S:  But you were actually convicted?  Of what?

C:  I wasn’t convicted of anything.  I plead guilty. I plead guilty.

S:  That was the Lindberg case?

C:  It wasn’t even Lindberg at first.  My judge was Durrant, who’s now on the Supreme Court.  Unfortunately, it got turned to Lindberg, but there’s a whole story on that, it will come out in my biography and it’s incredible.  It’s a great, great story to see how this justice system is crazy.

S:  Maybe here.

C:  Especially here.

S:  So, in regards to the Rachel Stong lawsuit, what was the end result?  You sued Vickie and Llewlyn and the publisher and the other, what was the final result?

C:  Well, it got to the point where the judge said, “Lets’ get this going towards trial.”  They tried to get it all on a summary judgment.  They tried to get it all thrown out and the judge refused to.  So it was up to me and I pretty much wrote the judge and said, “No, I don’t want to go through with this,” and he closed the case.

S:  You wrote him a letter?

C:  Hmmm… ya… I think..

S:  I can’t remember seeing a letter in the file.

C:  Did I write or did I call?  Oh, I think I called and said, “I’m not going to go forward with this case,” and he closed the case.  It’s that simple. It was that simple.  Remember, if it was about money, if it was about anything like that, that judge already said in the summary judgment I had cause, or he would never had let it go as far as he did.  If it was about money why didn’t I go for it?  It wasn’t about money.  It was about getting my side out, and if you read the documents you would have seen that, “Ya he got his side out, he answered Llewelyn’s bullshit, and he got his side out” and that’s all I wanted to do.

S:  So there was that lawsuit.  Who else did you sue besides the LDS Church?

C: Oh, geez.  I sued Lindberg, the Office of Adult Probation and Parole.  I sued a psychiatrist who was in bed with Lindberg pretty much.

S:  That was, uh – -

C:  Oh, I can’t remember her name.

S:  One that wrote about Lindberg being in Italy and Switzerland – -

C:  Ya.  I sued ‘em all.

S:  Nancy Cohn.

C:  Nancy Cohn.  You see, because of her – - the basis of what she did was ridiculous and biased, but anyway  - – I sued ‘em and got my side out and that was it.  I sued my brother.

S:  You sued Joe?

C:  Not Joe.  Joel, another brother, because he was telling people that I shouldn’t be around little kids.

S:  Why was he saying that?

C:  Because he’s an ass.  It’s just that.  And so with that, the judge, I think it was Kennedy, he was going to let that go to trial but I dropped it.  Stephen, again, my only purpose of going to court was to get my side in the public record — that’s it.  Nothing else.

S:  So, um, in the mean time you’ve been writing books, the 666.  What were your expectations or reaction to that?

C:  Exactly what they are.

S:  Didn’t you predict earthquakes, as it were?

C:  Hell no!  I never predict anything like that.  That’s been some kinda of a weird – - some enemy that came up and said, “He prophesied an earthquake.” Bullshit!  I didn’t prophesy anything.  The only prophesy I’ve ever given is about the Tijuana Temple.  And heaven help the LDS Church if they go through with that.  It will take a few years, but I guarantee ya, that thing will be destroyed by the Tijuanans themselves.  But I’ve never predicted an earthquake or anything like that.  I wouldn’t ever, if I knew about it.  I think what they misconstrued is in the book itself.  It talks about the symbolism of earthquake, and how the truth will “rock the world,” ya see?  But someone may have misconstrued something that was said.  No, there’s only one public prophesy–no, two.  Sorry.  Two public prophesies that I’ve given which will come true–and the other is that the United States will cease to be as it is by 2070.  Cease to be.  It will be incorporated into a – - I’m not going to tell you.  I can’t really [tell] ya.  It will become more of a subsidiary of another country — if you can’t see it headed for that.  But it will not be like it is today, unless it does one thing: it starts taking care of it’s poor correctly.

S:  The plan of the – -

C:  Worldwide United Foundation.

S:  - – ya, the ten point plan ending poverty.  And some of your critics will say, “It’s not about ending poverty because show me one person that he’s helped, one person. – -

C:  Let me put it this way – -

S:  - – Your own sister gets on one of your chat rooms and she’s poverty stricken and she’s – -

C:  Oh, my goodness sake.  That’s ridiculous!

S:  One of the guys wrote something – -

C:  Well, you can listen to those guys chatter all they want.  Let me put it how it is.  Are you ready?  Okay?  Let’s take, for example, the United Way.  Does the United Way help people with their medical bills?  Yes, it does.  That’s mainly what it does.  Do you know what the Shriner’s Hospital is?  The Shriner’s Hospital helps children with their medical bills who can’t afford them.  Crocks of bullshit, these two charities and foundations.  Why?  Because what we need is socialized medicine as Obama was trying to get for a single payer, where everybody’s covered; and then guess what you don’t need?  You don’t need the United Way and you don’t need Shriner’s Hospital, and you don’t need all these other convoluted thousands of charities and foundations that are set up, not to help people — ostensibly that['s] what they say — but to enrich those directors who organized them.  Because if we had socialized medicine there wouldn’t be a Shriner’s Hospital, there wouldn’t be these charities and foundations that help–there would[n't] be ‘em, they wouldn’t exist, who would need them?  Go up to Canada and try to find a Shriner’s Hospital.  What our Plan does and what I’m fighting for is exactly what Obama was fighting for:  Socialized medicine.  It’s what needs to happen and it will take care of all those institutions.  So don’t give me that bullshit that I’m not trying to help people, because if this Plan is incorporated, there’s not a critic or enemy out there that can prove why it wouldn’t work.  There wouldn’t be any poor.  None.  But mark my words today, if the United Stated of America does not incorporate the tenets of the Worldwide United Foundation Plan, it’s going to have a hard road down to nothing which will end in 2070 –in 2069 to be exact.  You’re gonna see it.  If you really go through all the points you’re gonna see it.  You’ll see it happen.  Come on, even today, those people who were receiving unemployment for 99 months, they kept extending it and extending it–it’s gone.  What are these people going to do, Stephen?  What do you think they’re gonna do?  If the WUF Plan was in place, they don’t have to worry about food–good food, not bad food; medical care, education, housing.  You don’t have to worry about those things–it’s all paid for.  The Plan explains how it’s paid for.  If we can pay the majority of a government’s budget to support war, which doesn’t give anything to the world, doesn’t give anything to the world in food, clothing, shelter, and all those things — it doesn’t give those things — then we sure can come up with the money to take care of the people if they need it.

S:  Tell me about the grave issue.  Did you ask Ida to give you her plot to put your grave?

C:  Oh, no.  This is how that happened.  Ida, because of the Work, she wanted to give everything to the Work, just like we talked about.  And she said that we have this grave spot, the gravesite, the last one in the corner of the Hyrum Smith Memorial part of the cemetery, and I said, “Well, let me inquire and see what they want me to do with that, to see if they want me to have that now.”  I checked with the powers-that-be, they told me to get it, I bought it from Ida, fair and square, I owned it, and we placed the memorial on there.  To stand as a contrast to the hypocrisy of the LDS Church, and the half-truths that they’re spreading.  Stephen, you not knowing Mormon history, you have to ask yourself this question: Who started the Mormon faith according to your understanding?  Joseph Smith, right?  Okay?  Then why is it that there isn’t a memorial in that cemetery of Joseph Smith?  Why is that his family didn’t follow Brigham Young out?  You don’t know those answers.  I do.  They’re in the biography and when you read them you’re gonna go, “Oh my god.”  You’re gonna see what really happened back then.  The world’s gonna see it.  And then they’re gonna look at Brigham Young, who was the one who really was behind polygamy.  Because remember, Joseph’s immediate family – - all of his intimate family – - they said he never was a polygamist, only “in spirit.”  You don’t understand that, go on the Internet – -

S:  I remember the issue.  How come he had all these wives and yet none of them had children by him?

C:  It’s not just that.  I’ve written that Appendix for the biography already, it’s on there.  Go in there and read it and you’re whole eyes will be opened.  You’ll go, “Oh my god.”  We have footnotes in history, we have exactly what happened.  Brigham Young took advantage of this bullshit.  All Joseph Smith was trying to do, that’s a whole other story.  But the fact is, the memorial is nothing more.  It was placed there under the mandate of the advanced beings who control this Marvelous Work And A Wonder, with the support of “Three Nephites” and “John the Beloved.”

S:  Why put your website on there?  Is your email on the gravestone?

C:  No, it’s just the website.

S:  Because it’s marketed towards them.

C:  That’s the only way this could be known to people.  It’s a memorial at this point, nothing more than a memorial.  It’s my plot of land, I can do with it what I want as long as it abides by the rules of the cemetery.  And it’s a marketing tool, and most people come up there and there visiting their, “Oh, their great wonderful prophets,” they’re gonna see that.  If they have any interest at all in really trying to understand the truth and they’ll go to the website and on that website they will find The Sealed Portion.  And if, with real intent and a sincere heart, they read The Sealed Portion, their life as an LDS member is over.

S:  What did you think when Julie told you that Ida was there in the audience that night?

C:  I didn’t think anything of it.  I didn’t know anything about Ida, until Ida – - this happened and nothing became of it.  Ida read the book for quite a long time and said she wanted to meet me.  And I was holding this symposium down at the library and it was constructed around some teenagers and the WUF Plan, and that’s when Ida came.  So that’s when I first met her and I said, “So how ya doin’ Ida?”

S:  You asked her, “Are you happy?”

C:  I think I did, something like that.

S:  It was a penetrating question.

C:  Ya, well, I think I do that with people.  But I didn’t give a rat’s ass who she was or what was going on, I don’t.  But once she started getting into this and she started embracing the Work, and she came forth and said, “What is it that I can do?”  That’s when I ask the powers-that-be.  I call ‘em that.  And this is when they said, “This is where it’s at.”  I didn’t even tell her that I was Hyrum.  I didn’t even tell her I was her great-great grandpa.

S:  She said she calls you “gramps.”

C:  She has; she did before, but when you understand the whole issue and what happened back then, you’ll see why, if you believe in various lives, you’ll see why it was important and a necessity for me to be Hyrum and for me to have that experience in order to do this, to continue Joseph’s Work, how it was supposed to be continued.

S:  As Joseph said prior to being killed?

C:  That’s right.  That’s exactly what he said.  That’s what caused all the consternation.

S:  To continue the Work?

C:  That’s right.

S:  So Brigham Young convinces Hyrum’s widow to accompany him, and Emma Smith goes on and successfully founds her own – -

C:  Understand what happened back then based on a human perspective.  Hyrum was in love with his first wife Jerusha; had his children.  Love her, adored her.  She died in child birth, okay?  And he couldn’t love any other woman.  But at this time he needed someone to take care of his kids.  So he found this other woman named Mary Fielding, okay?  Mary Fielding became like his second wife, but Jerusha, his wife was already dead.  So she came in there.  She never took Jerusha’s place.  She never did.  Mary always understood how much Hyrum loved Jerusha, okay?  So, she was always jealous of that fact.  So when Hyrum got killed and here she was raising Jerusha’s kids; her own children, now they weren’t as special, in her mind, as Jerusha’s.  And so Brigham Young comes in and says, “Hey, you know what?  You know all this that was said in the jail that Joseph said that Hyrum was going to continue his work?  I think what he meant by that is that it was your heritage, your son Joseph F. Smith, your son, Mary, is going to continue the Work, and he’s will do it under me, and I will make sure that your kids” and Mary was like “Yeah,” because none of Jerusha’s kids got shit.  They all went out west because they were under their mother’s care.  Emma Smith found out about this, confronted Brigham Young and said, “You son of a bitch,” not exactly like that but pretty much, “What are you doing?” Because at the time, Hyrum had Mary Fielding and her sister, and they were his, kinda his two wives.  But her sister was ugly.  And so Brigham Young comes in and said, “This is what we’re gonna do for ya Mary, your kids are gonna come out with me and I’m gonna make them leaders of the church, to fulfill Joseph’s prophecy that he gave about Hyrum continuing his Work, alright, so Heber C. Kimball, my right hand man will marry you.”  Heber C. Kimball married Hyrum’s widow four fuckin’ weeks after he died!  See, you don’t know all these things.  Get on there and read it.  This is the truth, that’s what happened.  And with that, he didn’t want her sister.  He didn’t want Mary’s sister because she was ugly.  And so Emma comes over there and says, “You licentious devil” or something like that, okay?  I have it written down exactly how it was said, “You licentious man, if you’re going to take Mary, then you better by goddamn take her sister, too, for a wife.”  But he didn’t want her.  And after Joseph died Heber C. Kimball and Brigham Young took tens and tens of wives.  Think about it man, in a human sense, so there was the problem that existed.  Emma and Joseph’s family said, “Brigham Young, you are an opportunistic asshole.  We don’t want anything to do with you.”  Joseph’s mother, Lucy Mack, hated Brigham Young, no matter what Brigham Young did.  And that’s where the big separation happened, okay?  So you don’t know these things but this is history.  The LDS Church, if you sat down with their best historian and said, “Why didn’t Joseph’s family follow Brigham Young?  What happened back then?”  “Well, we don’t have all that information.  There was some things that were said and done that we’re not really sure about but what we do know is that the Lord is in charge of this work and he will make sure that those who are destined to be in place are in place.  And we know that Mary Fielding’s son, Joseph F. Smith was to follow Brigham Young’s footsteps and was to be a prophet in his church as well as his son, Joseph Fielding Smith.”  Thus, Brigham Young fulfilled the prophecy that was given to Joseph before he died that Hyrum would continue his Work.  Well, where the hell are his descendants now?  Up there – - Ballard.  One of the Apostles, Ballard, is a descendant of Hyrum Smith.  So, see?

S:  What’s the[ir] relationship with Ida?

C:  It used to be good.  That’s her cousin.  They can’t stand her.  They treat her like she’s got – - according to Ida they’re cordial but they’re nothing like they used to be.  You saw that letter those women wrote her.  Oh my god, that’s ridiculous.  Jesus Christ.  And Ida is such, she is a little bit naive, because she’s so full of love  and compassion that, “Oh, yea, it’s okay, I understand.”  They’re fuckers man!  Why did they do that?  They hurt her.  I saw her cry.  When she was talking about that letter she cried.

S:  Oh, really?  She told me that she was okay with it.

C:  Oh bullshit!  That’s what she’s going to tell you.  I could feel that and that’s what pissed me off.   I said, “Can I have that letter Ida?  I’m going to publish it.”  She’s all, “Well, no, I don’t want to get them in trouble.”  I said, “Ida, I ain’t gonna put up with this, please.”  She gave me the letter and she knows that anything she gives me I am going to put it out in public.  So they know.

S:  Like Bennett’s letter?

C:  Bennett’s letter same thing.

S:  So she was upset by it?

C:  Oh ya, she can’t hide that.

S:  Ya, I guess she did[n't] hide it.  She couldn’t hide also that she was very upset by her brother’s allegations of you having relations with her.

C:  Oh, they thought we were sleeping together.  They still think that.  I joke about it online still, ya know?  I just joke about that shit.  It’s just ridiculous.  The reason why is, both of her brothers who have accused her of that have both been kicked out of the Church at one time because they’re both adulterers.  They committed adultery on their wives, so they got to think something – - that this Nemelka’s up to something.  Have you seen Ida?  I was sick to even think about their allegations.  But they think the same thing about Julie and every other woman that’s out there.  But they think about these things, Stephen, and it’s probably crossed your mind.  Well, why don’t you ask them?  Ask ‘em!

S:  Ask who?

C:  Anybody you want.  And you’ll find that there’s one woman that – - with whom I’ve had sexual relationships with – - that I kinda wanted to keep behind the scenes till I just couldn’t any longer, and that’s my wife Sheri.  If I wanted to be a polygamist, I would have continued on the Marcie, Vickie, Jackie thing way back then, had me ten or twelve wives working for me–I would have done all that.  It’s a crock of shit–polygamy.  It always has been and always will be.  And all you gotta do is read the actual history of it and what really happened.  You’ll see that Joseph knew it was a crock of shit, too.

S:  Tell me a little bit more about when you sued the judge, because that video recording of that one, how do I find it?

C:  I’ll ask John Roh who knows about that stuff and he’ll get it to you.  I’ll just send him an email and say, “Hey, help Stephen Dark find that video.”  The suit was very simple.  Once Ida had recorded the conversation between her and the Apostle Jeffrey Holland, I listened to it.  I can see he was disparaging me all over the place–telling half-truths.  He doesn’t know anything about my past.  He was lying about me.  You can’t do that.  You can’t publicly defame somebody like that.  And with that, upon inquiring about what I should do, I sued him and her brothers, because they, too, were spreading the same lies and rumors: that I was after Ida for her money, or polygamy, or whatever it was; spreading all these malicious lies.  And I had a right to file suit against them to stop it.  But one of the main purposes in doing that was to show the LDS Church, “You better leave me alone.  Don’t be creating falsehoods to try to get people dissuaded from investigating this Work.  If you do I will sue you.”  Which I really won’t now because I couldn’t care less about what they say.  At that time I was under obligation to get my side out and they accused my of being a practicing polygamist, and that’s not true–and that’s defamation.  And they accused me of other things, and anybody that is in the position that I am in has the right when those allegations are made, to stand up for themselves.  And that’s what the suit was about.  It was simply that.

S:  Okay.  Well, I’ll look at the video and get that.  So, how did you meet “John the Revelator”?  I think you did tell me before, was it in Pioneer Park?

C:  Oh, no.  That was in November of 2003.  He was there with Timothy to give me the plates again.  But I had met John the Revelator in 1987, shortly after I was given the assignment.  I met him here in Salt Lake City.

S:  Tell me about the New Year’s Eve party.  Last New Year’s Eve?

C:  Had a little bit of a break down, being drunken with wine.  How did you hear about that?

S:  It was in some kind of the chat deal and became a little bit of a spectacle.

C:  It was nothing.  I got a little bit inebriated and I simply broke down in front of those people and said, “These advanced human beings can take care of all this crap.  They can come now.  Ya know, I was drunk, but I was telling the truth.  You’d have to get other people’s version of that because all [I] remember of what I said, I really sincerely broke down, just thinking, “Why I am I doing this?”  If you guys would just show yourselves and prove to the world that you exist you could solve all the war, all the poverty, all the problems that we’re struggling with, and that was the basis of that break down–that’s all.  And all those who were there will tell you that.  That’s it.  Because it was a Blue Moon.  True Messengers have always been known as “the Moon,” because they exist in a darkened world and they reflect the light of the Sun–that’s all it is.  And so the “Blue Moon” was just – - I was upset that night.  I got drunk for god sakes.  And I’m very upset about things that are going on in the world.  Very upset about the position the governments take on poverty, on war, on things like that.  It upsets me to know that there are human beings out there that can solve it all immediately.  All they gotta do is come.  They have the technology and the ability to stop all this bullshit, but they don’t.  Because in their minds — and I understand why they don’t — but to me, as a man, as a mortal that has to deal with it, it’s hard.  And I, sometimes I get down.  And that was one of those times when I was around those people.  It’s that simple.  That’s it.

S:  What’s been the reaction to the grave, to the memorial?  What kind of responses have you had, other than someone trying to vandalize it?

C:  I’m pretty much hated.  I got enemies out there that would rather have Christopher Nemelka disappear, but it ain’t going to happen.  It’s very negative.

S:  But did you get any kind of concerns expressed by the people who run the cemetery?

C:  There hasn’t been any negative, none.  I own the ground.  It’s mine.  The people who made the monument thought it was pretty cool.  But, of course, it has the appearance of mockery, and it’s not.  It’s not a mockery.  It sits in the very corner of probably the most prominent and renown parcel of the Salt Lake City Cemetery.  And it stands as a contrast to the falsehoods that the LDS Church has been giving the world for a long time, okay?  And that’s what it was intended to do–it stands there.  It’s message is there.  It will probably get destroyed again and we’ll get back up there and we’ll rebuild it.  It might look like a piece of garbage in the next few years when people will take hammers to it, and do what they do.  But it will stand as a witness that this Work is here.

S:  How much did you pay for the plot?

C:  Well, honestly, I had someone donate the money.  I asked someone, and I think it was like 750 bucks, or something.  The transaction happened, it was just, pretty much, it was donated by Ida, if we can put it that way.  But regardless, I own that plot of land.  No one can take it from me.  That’s where I’ll be buried.  That’s where Sheri will be buried, on top of each other.  That’ll just be, we haven’t decided who will be  - – who will be on top of who.

S:  Final infamy – -

C:  That’s right.

S:  - – to be buried there.

C:  That’s just how it is.  The fact is, whether they want to believe it or not, I was Hyrum.  That’s how it goes.  There was a reason for that.  Now I’m here doing this Work.  Controversial?  Of course it’s controversial.  My god.  When ol’ Joseph started what he started, come on, what thing more controversial could there have been?  What did the Missouri Governor do?  You don’t know this about history.  The governor of Missouri put out an Extermination Order against the Mormons back in that day, because of the controversy.  Joseph Smith travelled to Washington D.C. and met with President Van Burren at that time, and pleaded that he step in and save them because the State of Missouri was coming after them.  President Van Burren didn’t do anything.  He washed his hands of it–just like Pilate did, said “I don’t have anything to do with this.”  Whatever, that’s a stage problem, ya see?

S:  Tell me a bit about Chris Hansen, one of your critics, one of the many.

C:  Oh, shit (nutcase/in that case…), he feels like he’s got some mandate from God to stop this, ya know?  You gotta interview him.  He’s a nice kinda guy.  We gave him an opportunity.  He came to the library one time and I gave him all the opportunity in the world to try to – -

S:  But didn’t he challenge you to a debate and you like backed out?

C:  Oh, hell no!  I challenged him.  I would never pull out of a debate.  Are you kidding me?  Never in a hundred million years.  Chris Hanson came to this symposium that I gave and I opened it up for him and said, “Okay Chris, tell us your deal.”  And he was stupefied.  He couldn’t say anything.  The things he was saying was so ridiculous it made him look not very good.  And [I] would never, ever run from a debate.  In fact, I encourage them.  It would be the best thing for a person that believes that this Work is what it is.  Well, let’s meet in public so the people can make a decision themselves.  You give your version, I’ll give mine.  And then we’ll go from there.

S:  J. J. Dewey?

C:  Oh geeze, J. J. Dewey wrote a book called, “The Immortal.”   When he first found out about The Sealed Portion, he read it and he contacted me personally back in 2005, the early part, and said, “Hey, I think we’re on the same page here.”  He believes that I made all this up to help people because he made all his crap up thinking that he’s helping people.  But J. J. Dewey was offended greatly by me because I wrote him back and said, “I don’t want nothing to do with you–you don’t know John the Beloved.”  That’s what his book, The Immortal, that’s what it is about.  I said, “John the Beloved doesn’t have a clue who you are.  You lied to the people, and you wrote this fictitious narration and present it as if it might be true–it’s not true.”  And so I offended him bad and ever since then he’s been a staunch critic.  And I challenged him to a debate and I said, “Come on, set it up.  I’ll be glad to be there with ya.”  He won’t do it.  Of course he won’t.

S:  Did you ban Rod Vessel’s girlfriend from seeing him?

C:  Hell no.  I would never do that.  Never.  Never in a million years.  I never tell anybody to do anything, Stephen.  I never give advice to people.  I would never say anything to anybody.  If somebody came to be and said, “Christopher, I believe who you are.  I believe that if any man on this earth knows truth it’s you. Tell me what I need to do.”  I would tell them this every single time, “Do unto others what you’d have them do unto you–that’s it.”  “Well, don’t you want me to do anything else?”  “Nope.”  You see?  And they can’t handle that.  Rod Vessels, you have to talk to him about his girlfriend – - it’s all about – - I offend so many people.  The reason why I do is because the claim never stops.  I am the only man on this earth who they have chosen to give this information out.  The Internet is their vehicle.  It’s gonna increase and expand, and in the near future everybody on this earth is going to have the Internet available.  And think about this, think about if Mitt Romney does makes it into the Presidency, okay?  And think about a person on the other side of the world who doesn’t have a clue what a Mormon is, and they find out this guy’s a Mormon, “What’s a Mormon?”  So they punch in “mormon.”  They’re only going to get is the LDS version, except for this Work.  Now they’re gonna have a contrast.  And they’re gonna go and see, “Oh, this says here its the Official and Authorized Biography of Joseph Smith.  Let me read this.  Oh, hell, now I see what happened.”

S:  There are like quite a few other “sealed portions” out there.  The guy in Australia – -there’s – -

C:  No no no.  There’s two more who claim, but they claim to be the sealed portion.

S:  Nobody else who has claimed to have translated the sealed portion?

C:  No.  Nobody claims to have the Gold Plates and the Urim and Thummim and to have translated the sealed part. That’s the description.  Out there on the Internet there’s what’s called “sealedportion.com.”  Ours is “thesealedportion.com.”  Ours is the authorized.  The “sealedportion.com” by this crazy guy – - who many of his followers have read this book, have read The Sealed Portion and told him he’s nuts.  Because what he claims is some angel came to him and gave him a rock and he came up with this.  He didn’t say he got the plates, he just got this to write the story of “the brother of Jared.”  Moroni is the one who wrote The Sealed Portion, not “the brother of Jared.”  And the other one, “The Oracles of Mohonri,” is ridiculous.  But the problem is, they’re out there with a good reason, they’re to give you a contrast.  A lot of people who embraced this Work read those, as they got through them they’re like, “This is garbage.”  They got to the real Sealed Portion, they’re like, “Now this is it.”  So what those two other “sealed portions,” which there’s really only two.  They give a person an opportunity to put the real Sealed Portion side by side with these false ones, and they can see the difference, it’s obvious, it’s as plain as day to them.  These guys out there, they’re very incognito.  They wouldn’t even talk to you.

S:  Which guys?

C:  The guys who wrote these fallacious things.  Oh, god, people are doing it all the time–writing bullshit stuff out there trying to get a following.  Trying to get people to give them accolades that God has chosen them for something.

S:  What actually happened to the memorial?  Somebody had knocked it over.  They took a hammer to it or… just pushed it over?

C:  They knocked it over.  No, they knocked it over this time but they’re not going to be able to do that now.  The foundation, it used to be four inches, now it’s fourteen.  So it’s not gonna be, but they’re going to attack it.  The LDS people, they’re going to attack it.  Stephen, I read this thing in the Deseret News I think it was, or the Tribune, last week or something, about the LDS people being nice.  “They’re nice people.”  Oh, you think so?  Then wait till you’re an LDS member then you’re an apostate, then see how nice they treat you–there’s proof of that.  See how they treat you when you reject their religion.  See how they treat you when you’re a homosexual.  Not too nice then.  They’re nice to you because they want you to believe that they have the truth.  They’re nice to you because they want to convert you.  The real predators, religious predators, are the Mormons who are trying to convert the world into their way of thinking, claiming, “We have the truth and nobody else does.”  That’s why they send 65,000 missionaries out there.  Well, the difference between that falsehood and this real truth is that we don’t send anybody out there.  I counsel people, “You have no right to counter anybody’s religion, not even the LDS Church.  That’s my job.  You let me disparage them.  You love them, treat them good, and you remember that most of you.”  This is what I said — and I don’t want you quoting this just like this – this is what I said to a group of Sealed Portion people, “You fucks used to be just as screwed up, just like they have.  You used to be Mormons just like they, understand where they’re coming from.  You didn’t know anything till you had The Sealed Portion so don’t condemn them.  Don’t mock that Church, it’s my job.  I’ll do all the mocking.”  So, in other words, I said to people, “Don’t talk to people about this.  Don’t sit there and say I have something wonderful.  Because if a person is not asking, you have no right to say you have something wonderful, because maybe what they have is wonderful to them.”  That’s how I teach people.  There’s no proselyting that goes on here.  A predator is one who goes out stalking, looking for somebody.  I don’t look for nobody.  Nobody.  You see?  So the real predators are the Mormon missionaries, who I was once one of.  Hell, we tried to talk to anybody.  But you know what our segue – - way in to them was?  “Read the Book of Mormon.  Read it with a sincere heart, with real intent and the Holy Ghost will tell you that it’s true.”  And guess what?  People who really did read that believed that it was true.  You probably have never read the Book of Mormon.  Yo[u] probably aren’t interested.

S:  That’s right.

C:  Well, that’s what I mean.  You try, but in your mind religion is just a bunch of bullshit, religious prose.  And you’re right.  That’s where, if you’d really understand this Work, you’d go, “Oh my god.”  Because that’s exactly what it is.  The Bible was invented by human beings.  The Book of Mormon was invented by advanced beings to counter the Bible.  The Sealed Portion is a further part to counter the Book of Mormon and bring people even closer to the truth.  The Human Reality book spells it all out.  Gives it all exactly how it is.  Scientific.  Not a religious word in it.  But it’s a deep book and it takes some time to read that thing.  But even the kids that read that, oh my god, what an effect that has, by that anonymous author.  All you do is have to read the books that I’m responsible for writing, like my diary and things like that, and read things like the Human Reality Book, the 666 book– ain’t gonna give you any doubt in your mind that Nemelka did not write those things.  So who did?  That John, you know the one “John the Revelator,” he wrote most of the 666 book.  All I did was dumb it down for you guys.  The 666 book, the first nine chapters, have affected more people than you can imagine.  There’s a kid that hates religion with all of his heart, stoner, named Nicholas Barrett.  He’s on the website.  His Mom gave him the 666 book and the only reason why he wanted to read it was because the devil’s sign [is] on it.  So he picked it up and started to go through those nine first short sections–nothing has ever affected him like that.  Since that time he’s read The Sealed Portion.  He doesn’t believe in the Bible or anything like that–and his life has changed.  He no longer uses drugs–and it’s okay, I say you can use drugs.  But instead let the truth give you what drugs do.

S:  Do you have a phone number for Nicholas?

C:  Ya, it’s right on there, it’s on the Internet.  I’ll tell you exactly.  Let me show you a picture and you’ll see what I mean.  Oh shit, we’re disconnected.  Well, what they’re doing is, they only give you two hours on this.

S:  It’s on thesealedportion.com?

C:  If you go to thesealedportion.com you’ll see an earth and you’ll see “discuss this” and you’ll see pictures; there’s pictures.  And look at the one in there that you’d least expect, his hair is all convoluted, he looks like a drug addict.  Click on it and read what he says. His name is Nick Barrett.  If you were to talk to him you’d go, “What the hell are you doing in this cult?”  He’d go, “It ain’t no damn cult.  Have you ever listened to Christopher?  Have you ever been to one of his symposiums?  Do you have any idea?”  And you’d say, “Well, no, I haven’t.”  And he’d say, “Then why are you calling it a cult?  Because I don’t belong to no cult and I hate religion and I hate people telling me what to do.  But if Christopher came up to me and told me anything–I’d do it.”  Now how do you do that to somebody?  I’m just brilliant?  I’m just this incredible genius type of whatever?  How about this?  How about religion is a crock of bullshit and it always has been?  How about the thing that divides us as a people is religion?  And that there are actually advanced human beings out there, Stephen, and they say, “Well, at this point in the development of that earth we got to do something; we got to do something to counter it.

S:  Other than the grave or the memorial, what other ways has Ida impacted on you personally and on The Sealed Portion?  Has she given you sort of renewed hope?

C:  No.

S:  Has she sort of impacted you in any sense that way?

C:  No.

S:  In what way do you see her impact beside her past and accepting your work?

C:  Only proof.  What Ida does to this Work is that she gives proof of how powerful this Work is; that can take someone of that caliber and that intelligence, and that connected to the LDS Church and can get them away from it.  It proves the power of this Work.  That’s the only thing I can say about Ida.  She’s been searching all of her life for truth.  Other than that, she’s just an old woman.  You met her, obviously you got to come away with your own opinion on what she’s like.  I think she’s incredibly strong.  I mean, from a lot of old people that I’ve seen this woman is – -

S:  Yes, she’s very strong.

C:  - – strong willed.  Strong minded.  But other than that, all it gives is proof.  Proof of the power of this Work.  I mean, if this Work had only affected crazy people, people who weren’t intelligent or well read, or ignorant in some way, then one would have to take a look at it and say, really, what this is?  But when it affects people like Ida, and the Davises, and the Smith’s, all these people.  If you were to get to know them, you got to ask yourself, “My god, no wonder the LDS Church is a little bit leery of this Work.  No wonder there’s a big black-out in the media.  No wonder they painted Christopher as being a monster, and a deceiver, and a false this, or a liar, or whatever.”  Of course they don’t want to do that, because if they don’t and this message gets out there, and other, quote-unquote, “Ida Smith’s” find out about The Sealed Portion, they’re gonna lose.  The first thing Ida did, what she told me, which everybody that I’ve ever heard of that reads The Sealed Portion that changed, they quit paying their tithing.  “Fuck this shit.  I’m not going to give to this Church.”  You see?  They don’t pay it to me.  They get a ten percent raise and another day off during the week, ya see?  And so if you think of the LDS Church and they’re losing their base tithing payers — these people that are staunch members and this work is causing them to leave their church — you’re going to be a little bit concerned.  And you’re gonna wanna say, “Let’s stop this and bite it in the butt right now.”  And the LDS Church has that power, Stephen.  I don’t know what you know, Stephen, but they have power.  They shut our website down.  We were with Pow Web, a hosting service.  Two LDS guys work for Pow Web.  We couldn’t get it to work for a whole week and none of the technicians could see why and they go in there and bring it up and it’d go right down, because there’s two Mormons that work for that company that kept taking it down incognito.  So we switched hosting services and went with somebody else.  Now how do we know from recent proof that this happens?  Wikileaks.  Wikileaks was with Amazon’s server and Amazon said to Wikileaks, “No. We’re not hosting you anymore,” so they shut ‘em down.  Wikileaks had to go with somebody else, ya see?

S:  So Pow Web hosting service.  That confuses me.  What was that?

C:  A hosting service is, in order to get your website on the Internet.

S:  And they were closing down thesealedportion.com website?

C:  That’s right.  They were closing us down.  So when people would go there, it would come up all convoluted.  It’s a felony to do that.  But, of course, they don’t have – - there was a great investigation.  Our attorney contacted their’s and said, “Hey,” and they did their investigation and said, “Well, we can’t really find out who did it,” blah blah.”  I wish I could give you their names but I’m not allowed to do that.  But the fact is: they shut us down.  LDS people committed felonies to try to stop this Work.  Now if, IF — it’s a big word — your story gets out there, Stephen’s “Dark” name is going to be exactly what it appears to be: Dark.  “No wonder Stephen Dark would do a story like this, because he’s dark, he’s not full of light, he’s full of darkness.  And that’s the bullshit you’re going to get.  But I can guarantee you there are going to be people out there that are going to say, “What the hell?”  And they’re gonna go to the website and go, “What the fuck is this? What do you mean The Sealed Portion?  I never even heard about it.”  Just like Ida.  And they’re gonna read that Sealed Portion and that’s all it wrote.  That’s all it takes.

S:  When the Ben Fulton story came out what impact did that have on your work?

C:  None.  It was a convoluted mess at that time.  Number one, I didn’t have the plates–I didn’t have the assignment anymore.  You know, and the way that I presented it to protect my own butt from Lindberg, caused a consternation, not only with the journalists — because you journalists want the truth, you don’t want bullshit given to you.  That’s what you’re trying to sift through.  It would be a journalistic suicide to pretend to something that’s not real, you see?  And your whole purpose is to try to present a story that the public’s going to want– number one.  That’s what it’s about.  And that presents the sides equally and truthfully.  You see?  And Ben’s was a big mess.  But you know what?  It would be good.  Get a hold of Ben Fulton and ask him if he’ll get together with me and you.

S:  I’m not sure he’d want that.

C:  Well, why?  Why wouldn’t he?

S:  I’m having lunch with him tomorrow.  I’ll ask him.

C:  Call him and say, “Let Christopher come.”

S:  Um, I’ll ask him tomorrow.

C:  Why wouldn’t he?  Is he afraid of me?  What is the deal, Stephen?

S:  Um

C:  Because this is what happened: He came down to the jail to interview me and I said, “No.”  I didn’t want anything to do with him.  He couldn’t get me in the jail so he wrote me the letter.  In my eyes it was a threat, “If you don’t talk to me.”

S:  I mean in my eyes that’s good journalism.  I mean, he said, “I want to get the other side of the story.”

C:  Ya, whatever it is.  But he didn’t really understand the position I was in.  And he doesn’t [know] anything [that] was happening with Christine Marie.  He doesn’t realize that before his goddamn story, a couple months back, this Christine Marie was trying to go to my family’s reunions.  She was trying to back in with me and I rejected her.  I wanted nothing to do with her.  Was I writing revelations for her?  Ya, I did.  Just like Joseph Smith did, okay?  But I did these things to save my own ass because I was a selfish bastard at the time, okay?  But if he met with me – - you’re the only one that has – - he would come to find out, “Well, geeze, maybe I has this guy wrong.”

S:  Didn’t you meet with Jesse, too?

C:  Ya, I met with Jesse just for a bit but it was on my nephew’s death, and I told him and said, “Look, you guys don’t know.  You don’t know the pressures put on that kid.

S:  Didn’t that result in a story?

C:  No. Jesse didn’t seem to like me too much.  Because I told him – - I pretty much told him that your paper’s not helping anybody out of the LDS Church, which is the only thing that’s going to help you homosexuals.  You gotta get people away from that Church and thinking.  And now everybody that’s read The Sealed Portion and has embraced it is totally on the homosexual’s side.  Let these people live as they want and marry who they want, and somehow he just didn’t like me.  But you gotta ask yourself that, “Why won’t you meet with this guy, Ben?  What’s the deal?  All you did was talk with him on the phone.  He was in jail under duress for crying out loud.  He had a judge that was hanging him.”  Think about that, Stephen.  Ben didn’t know this, but the facts are: “Did he meet with you, Ben?”  No, he didn’t.  ”What made him finally get a hold of you?”  To protect my ass from ‘ol Judge Lindberg.  Did it help?  No.  Because when I got out — when she put me on probation for two years, under basically an ankle monitor so I couldn’t go anywhere after six o’clock at night — I ran from that bullshit.  But see, Ben doesn’t understand those details.  All he cared about is that he felt sorry for Christine.  Well, he doesn’t know the story.  He doesn’t know what she did.

S:  He may have reported it as he understood it to be.

C:  In a way he did right, ya see?  I’m not denying that.  I didn’t deny.  I’m not denying what I said to Ben Fulton.  What I’m telling you is that nobody knew the circumstance.  They didn’t know what was going on.  Was my interview with him on the jail phone?  Yes it was.  Was I under duress?  You bet I was.  Extreme duress.  And he did what he did.  But I’d challenge him, “Ben, sit down with Christopher Nemelka and talk to him.”  He doesn’t want anything to do with me.  Why?  Because in his mind I have become a monster, I’m a manipulator, a deceiver, or whatever.  I have an agenda or whatever.  You know.  Fuck him then.  I don’t care, he can do what he wants.  But that’s not good journalism.  If you have an opportunity to sit down with your adversary, who’s kind – - and I’m not going to – - I don’t ever get mad, I would never hurt anyone, never would hurt a fly.  And you have the opportunity to do that.  What’s his problem?

S:  He isn’t with the paper anymore and it isn’t relevant to him.

C:  Stephen, something’s relevant or you wouldn’t be having lunch with him.

S:  Well, no, I’m having lunch with him because he’s a friend and – -

C:  If you tried to say that my name isn’t going to come up during that lunch then I would call you a liar.

S:  - – when I spoke to him the other day I had called him (…) and said I was seeing you to do a story (…) and we just talked about it.

C:  He’s got his view.  He didn’t know anything back then.

S:  Sure, I believe that he does, informed or not.  So um…

C:  Well, I’m glad.  I hope that for your sake, for the sake of the truth, that your paper allows you to do that.  Because it’s an exclusive.  And let me tell you this: from this time forward, Stephen – -

S:  The LDS won’t publish this story.

C:  Hell no.  But you never know.  But this is what I’m going to tell you and you alone because of this:  I ain’t talking to any reporter but you.  If anybody ever calls my publicist or my attorney, or whatever, I’m going to tell them there’s one reporter I’m talking to, so if you want to talk to me, then Stephen Dark has to be there, and if you can’t arrange it with him I don’t want to talk with you.  I knew that there was going to be one reporter with the balls to sit down and confront this controversial issue, and I knew in my heart, if there was anyone – - I didn’t know it was you – - but I told myself the first person that does with integrity, they have an exclusive on me, and I’ll talk to nobody else.

S:  Thank you.

C:  Well, and you mark my word.  It doesn’t matter if this story goes and somebody from ABC news calls me, and I’ll tell ‘em, “Have you talked to Stephen Dark?  Because if you haven’t talked to Stephen Dark and Stephen Dark doesn’t approve me talking to you then I’m not talking to you.”

S:  It’s totally your decision.

C:  It’s totally my decision because I don’t give a shit about NBC, or any of this other publicity, Stephen.  I don’t even care if you don’t even run this story.  The fact is, I’ve given my two bits.  That’s it.

S:  I want to come back to you and get, just before I do, a first draft and maybe we can just chat with him, just kinda review, just so I can clear up my mind, on Tuesday afternoon.  Will you be available then?

C:  Tuesday afternoon, next Tuesday?  Ya, I’ll come here, I should be here.

S:  I’ll shoot you a mail.  I see you’re based intermittently out in Orem.

C:  We have an R.V.  And I stay in the R.V. here, whenever I can.  And there’s a place at Ida’s.  We’ll stay at Ida’s sometimes.  Sheri stays at Ida’s alot.  And that’s pretty much it.  But I have an R.V. here.

S:  In the basement under – -

C:  The basement, yup.  It’s just a little place, little Sheri…  goddamn.  She’s such a trooper.  She’s following all these times she’s been with me, she’s been in the van, in the R.V. and I won’t live with other people in their houses with them.  Ida had a basement that she wasn’t using so we kinda turned it into a place where I’m there at times.  Dude, you know.  You got to remember something.  What I just promised you is going to be the test of my integrity as an individual, as a person, okay?  Let’s say that this does go, especially with this biography coming out.  And you get a call from this reporter and they say, “Christopher won’t even talk to me unless I talk to you.”  Will you finally, maybe consider, that maybe I should read that Human Reality book?  You don’t have to read it until then.  If that ever happens, and you’ll say,” Well shit, Christopher could have gone to this reporter and got a big story,” you’ll finally understand something nobody does.  It’s not about me.  I don’t give a shit about that publicity.  Because you did this, you took the time with Ida and this, I’m sticking with you.  To hell with everybody else.  Let ‘em try.

S:  Okay. Thank You.

C:  Whatever you do with it, well, good luck.