Echthros’ “won” the debate in his own mind. But in reality, he proved only that he is a fool.


From Christopher’s Daily Journal:


The Court continued the November 30, 2018 hearing to January 4, 2019.  After the Court ordered the continuation, I received the following email from Echthros’ attorney:

Dear Mr. Nemelka:

The Court’s order entered today does not address continuing the trial setting for April, as you requested.  I think the Court is waiting for a stipulation from us.  I am willing to stipulate to continuing the trial to the April setting.  If you are still agreeable to that, let me know, and I will prepare a stipulation for your review.  As you will be leaving the country next week, please get back to me at your earliest convenience.  I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Norm Reece

Here was my reply to Echthros’ attorney:

Mr. Reece,
Short answer: No.
Long answer:
1. When I filed the motion for a continuance I included a note to the Court that I wanted the trial to proceed as ordered unless the Court found good cause to continue it to April.  The Court obviously didn’t find good cause to change the trial date, and I will not stipulate to the change as required by the Court’s Order Setting Trial.
2. I have proof that I pleaded with you to set mediation before December 2018, when I knew I had to take a trip to Europe for the MWAW.  Not once did you respond to my requests.  I will prove your insolence and lack of cooperation to the Court.
3.  You have done nothing but complicate this case and have filed pleadings that violate Rule 11, all of which I intend to prove to the Court.   To wit:
  • You have presented things for an improper purpose.
  • You have presented things to harass me, cause unnecessary delay, and needlessly increase the cost of litigation.
  • Your claims, defenses, and other legal contentions are not warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law.
  • NONE of your factual contentions have evidentiary support or, when specifically so identified, will likely have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery.
  • Your denials of factual contentions are not warranted  on the evidence or, as specifically so identified, are reasonably based on belief or a lack of information.
You know, as I know, that not one of your listed lay witnesses is going to attend trial and testify to what you have listed.  I pointed this out in my recent motion to dismiss.  I spent Thanksgiving with my kids (the kids [now adults who are coming to trial to testify] that your client believes I kidnapped … I did not, the charges were dropped and completely absolved) in Montana who were with Paula Agerter.  Paula, as well as about every one of your listed witnesses, is appalled at your client and you for implying that she is going to attend trial on your behalf.  Your client is a sick man, Norman.
(NOTE: See Echthros’ Disclosure of Witnesses Including Rebuttal Witnesses: DefendantWitnessListForTrial. Echthros filed this in an attempt to imply that he has all these witnesses that will be coming to court to testify of the things that he mentions of each.  Not one intends on attending trial.  And if any did, I would get the chance to cross examine them and force them to testify on my behalf.  What Echthros is doing in this case is an effort to prejudice the Court during the discovery stage to make it seem that he has a better case than he actually does.  This is typical of both my and Joseph Smith’s enemies/critics.  They have/had no real proof of anything they claim[ed] about me/Joseph.  They speculate and say things that they hope to be true, but in reality are lies.  Most of what is written about Joseph Smith comes from filed Affidavits signed by his enemies.  No affidavit is admissible at trial unless the affiant is present to be cross examined.  One of Echthros’ listed witnesses is Bryce Blakenagel, whom I confronted on video.  I asked Blakenagel about the proof he had of the things that he was saying and publishing about Joseph Smith.  Blakenagel said he had “documentation.”  When pressed as to what the documentation was, it became very apparent that the “documentation” upon which Blakenagel had depended for his opinion was from Joseph’s enemies and critics.  Echthros’ website,, has all kinds of documentation, all of which I intend on proving are malicious lies at trial.  I would love to have Blakenagel show up to trial and be cross examined.  I’ll have the video in which Blaenagel states that he makes a “handsome” living from presenting the “documentation” against Joseph Smith.  If I were a legal [provable] descendant of Joseph Smith, I would sue Blakenagel and many others on my ancestor’s behalf, as Idaho’s legal code defining defamation includes: “I.C. 18-4801.  LIBEL DEFINED. A libel is a malicious defamation, expressed either by writing, printing, or by signs or pictures, or the like, tending to blacken the memory of one who is dead, or to impeach the honesty, integrity, virtue or reputation, or publish the natural or alleged defects, of one who is alive, and thereby to expose him to public hatred, contempt or ridicule.”  I will never be able to prove that I am actually a descendant of Joseph Smith, because I am not.  But my “God” is!  Oh, yeah!)
(My email response to Echthros’ attorney continued …)
You know, as I know, that Dr. Hatzenbueler found nothing criminal or abnormal about my personality.  In fact, I believe that when she reviewed your client’s website, she probably found Dschaak more criminally minded and abusive than I could ever be.
I intend to prove every one of the above Rule 11 violation points in a refiling of my motion for Rule 11 sanctions against you after the January 4, 2019 hearing, IF I see that Judge Naftz is going to play fair.  IF Judge Naftz continues to treat me the way that he did, and your client acts in court the way that he did, I will withdraw my complaint and refile in Utah District Court, appealing any default judgment that Naftz gives you.
My Motion To Dismiss Without Prejudice is before the Court.  Your client can stipulate to this and this case will be over.  I will not be paying any attorney fees, sanctions, or anything else. I will be appealing any ruling that awards your client any money.
IF your client refrains from calling me a pedophile, cult leader, sexual predator, exploiter, murderer, felon, criminal and the other things he has called me that are defamatory and which he will never prove are true in the least, he will not hear from me again.
IF your client ever publishes anything else about Filtagreen, that company now has counsel and has the means to file against your client in court and will prove substantial damage because of the lies that your client has published about me and my involvement with the company.
In summary,
I will not stipulate to continuing the trial.  I am ready for trial and will meet the deadlines ordered by the Court.  I am going to destroy your client’s credibility on the witness stand with a plethora of evidence and witnesses.  He is going to have to sit there and face me and answer my questions.  He hates me now.  After trial … well, you can imagine.  Your client is a sick man, Norman … yeah, I repeated it.  He should have simply gone on with his life.  And no, his April 2018 sessions with a therapist are not going to fly as proof of his emotional problems, all of which could have been avoided had he rejected my religion and moved on with his life.
I will not allow your client to continue to abuse other people.  I will not allow him to say defamatory things about me again.  He can call me crazy, a conman, deceiver, whatever, as these are his opinion and do not denote criminal behavior.  He can keep his website which we will meticulously monitor.
I do not have to reveal to you the evidence that I intend on presenting to impeach your client’s testimony and the testimony of your expert witness, Rick Ross.  Your client is a liar.  Or at best, your client is insane for making things up that he thinks are truths.  I will prove that everything that he has published against me is a lie.  I intend on suing Ross in Federal Court once this case is over for calling me a cult leader, which I am far from being.
ALL of my witnesses will be attending trail.  There are some that have already made plans and paid for travel expenses and hotels in the area for the January 29th trial date, so I will not ask them to change their plans and lose money.
It’s now up to your client.
He either stipulates to a dismissal without prejudice or any financial compensation (those offers were made and rejected) or we go to trail on January 29th.  And you and I both know that Judge Naftz is not going to grant your request for summary judgment on January 4th when he denied mine, especially in light of my motion to have him recused.  IF he grants it, I’ll appeal his decision and prove his obvious bias..
It’s your client’s choice.
This is all I have to say to you outside of Court.
Respectfully, but tired of your games.
(End of my email response.)

If Echthros wanted this case to end, it could end easily.  All he would have to do is stipulate to a dismissal of the case without prejudice.  “Without prejudice” means that either party can refile the same “causes of action” if their stipulated agreement fails.

But what would Echthros do with the rest of his life?  He has no real value or purpose outside of demeaning me and fighting me and the MWAW.  He has received money from other of my critics and enemies to pay for his attorney and defense and support him and his family while he fights me.

He’s not getting a penny from me to repay him for his malicious attack on my character and the MWAW.  I’ll appeal any financial award the court gives him.  It’s funny how the defamation suit was turned around to make a victim out of Dschaak.  His attorney was doing a pretty good job and thought he could roll over me once I went pro se.  Well, but anyways …

Echthros will never stop me or the MWAW.  That’s like fighting “God” and stopping “the Father’s work” … now that all ya all know who the true god and “Father” is and what “God’s work” entails.

In March of 2012, I met Echthros in public and gave him an opportunity to present any and all the evidence he had against me.  He spent over two hours presenting his case.  (The entire “debate” can be seen at these three links:

Part One:

Part Two:

Part Three:

To understand Echthros’ sickness and obsession that blinds him and does not allow him to see reality, one need only watch this debate in its entirety.  (Keep in mind that I publicly warned Echthros, days before the debate, that if he confronted me in public he would “shake and tremble” in my presence.)

Watching these videos, especially my response starting in Part Three 9:50, will give a person an idea of how the trial is going to proceed.  One will notice the vast difference between my demeanor and Echthros’.

It’s very hard for a reasonable person to have the patience to listen to Echthros throughout his hours of nonsense.  When Echthros was finally through, and it was my turn, I asked the audience, “Did anybody understand where [Echthros] was coming from?”  (Part Three: 13:08)  No one did.

To really get a gist of how “sick” Echthros has become, listen to my entire response to his hours of babble, starting at Part Three. 10:00.  But more particularly, watch Part Three from the beginning, where it was supposedly my turn to speak and confound what Echthros spent over two hours explaining, none of which made a lick of sense.

When I tried to pull out the clues that the Bros gave in their Book of Mormon storyline about those who “contend” against the MWAW and “deny” it, Echthros started packing up to leave.  I sat there for over two hours listening to his bullshit, and he wouldn’t let me speak without interrupting or leaving.  Here is the scripture that I quoted:

“And he that will contend against the word of the Lord [as given through the MWAW, see Ether 4:4-7), let him be accursed; and he that shall deny these things, let him be accursed; for unto them will I show no greater things, saith Jesus Christ; for I am he who speaketh.”  (Ether 4:8)

Incredibly, starting in Part Three, 8:10 to 9:20, listen to Echthros explain how he came to “believe” the things that he did, not admitting that his beliefs were wrong, but trying to prove that others’ beliefs that don’t agree with his are wrong.  (I will be using this part at trial.)

It’s obvious from observing Echthros that he had no intention on listening to my rebuttal.  Had I continued and been allowed the same amount of time, I would have destroyed his logic and presented things that impeached every part of what he said and what he was trying to prove about my life.

Echthros claims that he doesn’t know what other people are thinking, but he “knows what he [referring to me] thinks.”  Echthros doesn’t have a clue what I think.  But I certainly know what he is thinking.  Come to trial and see how the evidence of this is shown.

Now Echthros, seeing that thou hast been taken in thy lying and craftiness, for thou hast not lied unto men only but thou hast lied unto God; for behold, he knows all thy thoughts, and thou seest that thy thoughts are made known unto me by his Spirit;

“And thou seest that I know that thy plan was a very subtle plan, as to the subtlety of the devil, for to lie and to deceive this people that thou mightest set them against me, to revile me and to cast me out— Now this was a plan of thine adversary, and he hath exercised his power in thee. Now I would that ye should remember that what I say unto thee I say unto all.

“And behold I say unto you all that this was a snare of the adversary, which he has laid to catch this people, that he might bring you into subjection unto him, that he might encircle you about with his chains, that he might chain you down to everlasting destruction, according to the power of his captivity.”  (Compare Alma 12:3-6.)

During the debate, Echthros was asked to name the “several people” whose lives he mentioned that I had negatively affected in my past.  He mentions one, Christine Marie, of whom Julie Taggart speaks and confronts Echthros.  When Julie’s logic and her conclusion of speaking with Christine Marie doesn’t fit Echthros’ agenda, he shuts her down.


During trial, he will not shut me down, nor Julie.  At trial, he will be forced to hear what I have to say without interrupting me.  I walked away from Echthros and gave him all of my time, offering to let him speak to the people and present his evidence.  I left the scene out of compassion for him.  I sincerely felt sorry for the fool he was making of himself.

I no longer have any compassion for him.  I’ve been given the mandate to use the Real Truth … that “sharp two-edged sword coming out of my mouth” to destroy him.  I will do this at trial.

He has this last chance to end it all and stipulate to a dismissal as I explained to his counsel.  But in his demented mind, Echthros is convinced that he will prove his case against me.  Consider this piece of evidence, an email that Echthros wrote to the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) about how the public “debate” went.  Incredulously, Echthros thought that it “went well”:


During Part Three of the videotaped “debate,” where Echthros confronts Julie Taggart, had he allowed her to continue, Julie would have made him look like a fool.  Echthros cuts off anyone who is about to make him look like a fool.  But he will not cut me off during trial …  “Fools mock.  But they shall mourn.”

We have given Echthros every opportunity to end this case and get on with his life and start acting reasonably nice.  But acting nice is not in his mortal DNA.  Those who came to know Dschaak during the years that he was involved with the MWAW, realize that everything about Harry was about Harry.  I allowed Harry to be Harry so that one day a confrontation could take place and the world would have its first view of how an enemy and critic come to hate the Real Truth and invent lies to bolster their claims.

Echthros’ True Self, the incredible human being in whose brain Echthros’ mortal life is playing out, is allowing Echthros to do what all of this advanced human’s mortal avatars have always done during mortality: fight the Real Truth and its True Messengers.  Whether the world will accept it or not, I have explained that one of Echthros’ past lives was that of John C. Bennett.  We’ve presented it before, but here are Bennett’s own words about Joseph Smith…

Just before he led a disguised mob to the Carthage Jail to murder Joseph, Bennett published his own book about Joseph Smith.  He called it: History of the Saints: Or, An Exposé of Joe Smith and Mormonism. Here is an exact excerpt from the Preface of Bennett’s book:

“I have been induced to prepare and publish the following work by a desire to expose the enormous iniquities which have perpetrated by one of the grosses and most infamous impostors that ever appeared upon the face of the earth, and by many of his minions, under the name and garb of Religion, and professedly by the direct will and command of Almighty God.”

Echthros could have written the above (for all intents and purposes, he did back in 1842 during one of his mortal incarnates.)  This explains what “induced [Echthros] to prepare and publish” the defamatory things about me on his website,

Again, I no longer have any compassion for Harry Dschaak.  I know his True Self and I know that his “Lucifer” is playing his role perfectly … giving the fruit of the tree to Adam and Eve in violation of God’s command … all allegoric, of course.

Dschaak is not going to be able or allowed to form a disguised mob and have me murdered, although he would like to.

I’ll have my day in a controlled court of law (if we can get the judge to be fair and impartial) to confront him and cut him asunder.  He won’t be able to interrupt me and walk away.  I’ll play back some snippets of the videotaped debate that will impeach him and bring out his meanness, his lies, his subjective, and his malicious campaign in his attempt to “mar” me.  Yeah, the Bros left a clue in their Book of Mormon about me being “marred”:

For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.”  (3 Nephi 21:9-10)

Joseph Smith’ life was also in the hands of the Bros and the true god.  He was allowed to be a martyr for the “sake” of the “Father’s work”.  The book, Without Disclosing My True Identity explains when and why the Bros left Joseph Smith so he could be murdered.  (See Chapter 36, page 517. See also Chapter 33, pages 472–4; and Chapter 34, pages 484-5.)

Unfortunately for the reincarnated Bennett, this time around, the Bros haven’t left me and will not.  I will finish “the Father’s work.”  The Bros knew exactly what they needed to do for years regarding The Sealed Portion.  It never really mattered to the Bros what I needed to go through to be “marred because of them.”  They knew the true god all along and knew that “God” is “able to do mine own work,” and no rebellious True Messenger is going to stop the true “work of the Father.”

About the sealed portion of their story, the Bros wrote through Joseph Smith at that time:

“Touch not the things which are sealed, for I will bring them forth in mine own due time; for I will show unto the children of men that I am able to do mine own work.”  (2 Nephi 27:21)

Echthros certainly won’t stop the Marvelous Work and a Wonder® from going forth.  This trial will only bring out the Real Truth even more.

But Echthros can stop the lawsuit if he wants.

Harry Dschaak’s pride is indescribable.  He just might take his chances at trial.  But this time, because I no longer have any compassion for him and have been given permission to “sharpen the two-edged sword coming out of my mouth,” I am going to destroy him.

If you think Echthros was shaking and trembling throughout his public “debate” …

Wait until the trial.

Well did Echthros explain during the debate about “belief”:

“Belief … you have your beliefs that mean something to you, they got you to where you are, they have evolved over time.  You used to believe this now you believe this, replacing always going on.  Little neurons form in your head.  You accept these things and they become true.  We hear testimony of things that are true which we know are not true.”  (Part Three, 8:30 to 9:00)

On the stand, I will be asking Echthros about his beliefs, how his beliefs evolved over time, and most importantly, WHY they evolved and WHAT started the evolution.  At trial, the evidence and facts about the tens of thousands of dollars that he accepted from others by being involved in the MWAW, the hundreds of hours of wasted time he spent talking during meetings that people attended to listen to me, will come out on be put on the record.  When I finally intervened and stopped Dschaak from taking advantage of people, “little neurons form[ed] in [his] head,” and he became a mean, vindictive, malicious human being … something I always knew lurked inside of him behind what some saw as a reasonable man.

You see, Folks, the “little neurons” in Dschaak’s mortal head have formed and acted the same in every one of his mortal incarnates.  They are a direct response of the needs of “God” … Harry’s God … which is my Lucifer.

Now it’s time for me to do my job as a True Messenger and “cast out Lucifer.”  (Refer to the symbolism in Joseph Smith’s endowment play presentation.)

And Harry Dschaak is foolish and prideful enough to give me the chance.

But anyways …

P.S. Of note, during Part Three you will notice a man sitting at the lower screen to the left of Echthros while he is presenting, dressed in a black coat.  (See 8:20.)  He is armed with a gun at this time.  His name is David Bishop, an ex-law enforcement officer.  He and others are responsible for the website.  Shortly after this debate, he suffered a stroke that left him debilitated and lame.  He is one of the main financial contributors to Echthros’ defense fund.  But anyways … I’m just saying …  Bishop’s god showed him some good evidence of who “God’s” True Messenger is.  Is that a threat to my enemies?  No.  It’s the truth!  One of my best friends had a stroke because of how he dealt with me … it was all my fault, however, how he dealt with me.  This is truly the only “True Father’s” work.  Nothing is going to stop it this time.  Fight against God and you’ll be fighting against the Real Truth.  Fight to keep the Real Truth from coming out and see what happens.  But anyways … just saying … Sigh …